WIP Beta released The Tennessee USA Roane County 0.71 Beta Discussion/Suggestion/feedback Thread 19.3.1

Stop making me jealous at everyone that has an actual job

 

What's your current computer configuration (Processor, Graphics, System Ram, is it a desktop, laptop, etc)?
Don't feel bad listing it. I don't have a super-computer, it may well have been closer to that 4.5 years ago when I built it in OCT 2014, but I still have the same one all these years buddy.
I've updated the video board, doubled the RAM (to 32GB when I started modeling things), and added some SSD's to store map data, like textures, models, so-forth (A 4k 'model' of the terrain is 1.6~1.8GB without being textured, I use one of these as a guide while making things like some of the subway stations such as the sunken platform in Los Injurus).
So this 4790k system is no super-computer, it's pretty maxed out, Can't really update it any more (and thankfully don't quite need to!). So you don't need a total monster of a system. You don't even need 32GB of RAM (unless you model while having the game open, such as when updating models etc), 12~16GB is normally enough to even have the web browser left open while you game. 8GB is 'just barely enough' these days and is quickly seeing the end of it's usefulness in anything beyond browsing / email.

So entirely, you don't need a fancy computer, besides, there's plenty of systems on the used market just like mine. Mine won't get sold when I make a new one, it'll be a spare/backup or it'll go to a family member or at the very least, it'll go to a retired military guy (I had a computer in 2012, an ASUS P6T Deluxe/1st-gen i7 w/12GB RAM/GTX 470 Nvidia board in it, which I gave to an 8 year Army veteran).

Pay attention daily or bi-daily to your local facebook marketplace, craigslist ads, and LSN or other local classifieds, to sometimes snag sweet deals, just make sure to see that it works, and if you're worried about getting your pockets run, take a 'heater' with you, to put it lightly - Because the best law enforcement is the 2ND Amendment, though it's not so bad here in good 'ol Tennessee. Just don't get busted for anything, that's all - they don't have BeamNG in prison. :x

This may be some of the last of genuine America left, down here in Tennessee, and is what makes me proud to live here. Nothing like the police-state of Pennsylvania, you can actually hold conversation with the officers down here and they're normal people - not all power-tripping on innocent citizens, bullying them around, and this and that (when you haven't done anything). There's always a few bad apples anywhere you go, but I sure found a lot up north.

@Username Good to see you, I think you've been around on my map threads since the first month or two I posted about Nevada Interstate, I believe. You'll love this update if you can run traffic, and even if not, this is a 'quality of workmanship update' more than content. The fit-and-finish is so much better this time around. No huge changes aside of quality & bug-fixes but it still took over 200 hours of meddling about in the editor and testing. It should be pretty bug-free unlike the update (that was private) that came 3 days before this. What a wonder an additional 20 hours of testing can do!

--Cheers!

P.S. LOS INJURUS City map update will be out to Patreon subscribers likely 3rd week of April will be the next one. If anyone signs up for the Patreon (linked in the description for this map, or you can search for the Los Injurus thread itself), please give a shout on here as I do not always check it daily, sometimes it's every few days, so I can make sure you've got the most recent beta of whatever I am working on (normally that's Los Injurus City map, but in the event I refresh another map like I did here, that means 5~10 day window of early access).
The next update to Los Injurus features more city goodness, buildings, new Sea-Walls and of course improved traffic mod handling.

 

Seems I'm the only outlier with an issue, got a feeling that it's a driver issue since BeamNG doesn't play nice with AMD cards but I'm getting some pretty funkadelic artifacting.

 

Just waiting for it to download right now, haha. I've been playing with the Traffic Tool on other maps, so glad to hear it works on this as well .

 

It's in my signature...that thing still exists somehow...either way, it's there.

Yeah, you can say that, but for a teen that still acts like a kid...for some reason, doesn't work that well. I guess I can just be happy I can even play Beam, as this laptop is my first foray into games crashing. Lack of space doesn't help, but difficult to deal with that when you have no self control
maybe I should worry about my life first....naah

Thanks for that though. I guess I can ask about facebook listings......maybe getting to $1,200 was too much for this...

 

Well, laptops are laptops, they are expensive for the performance, but come with portability. This game does tax desktops quite hard, I might have 6 cores @ 4.8Ghz 2666Mhz Hyper-X and gtx1080, but it is about same with 4 or 6 cores, even gtx1070 would do pretty much same as gtx1080, there just is limits, 5-6 cars, 10 at JRI with occasional drops to 50fps with normal graphics and no fancy reflections or ssao, considering $2,000+ desktop systems have limits there, laptops just will have bit more trouble.

Your specs are missing GPU, but I guess mobile 1060 maybe, running on normal graphics instead of high and no reflections or ssao might help a lot.

Anyway, to test new Roane County, was distracted yesterday too much, I have window open and CPU at 18C, so there is bit less of screaming fans to cool VRM and other bits, wonders of modern computing

 

...Hmm...might not help that I know pretty much nothing about specs, except for the basics...I just base this laptop on "It can run BeamNG.Drive on normal graphics.

Aaaa, I don't like looking at the game without ssao, but I understand why it takes down the fps a bit. I often play on custom, keeping it inbetween low and normal, but I had it on high recently for my map's thumbnails and I'm just lazy.

And don't say this is off-topic, this map is super intensive, so it's relevant with pc specs reeee.

 

SSAO is like kicking balls of FPS, especially with laptops, solely that makes more hit than normal to high.

Physics paused, no SSAO or Dynamic reflections, 6 AI cars, can't keep up 60fps, not much difference to fps between physics paused or running, that is graphics being too heavy for single core. 4 cores or 6 cores, performance is pretty much same.


It rarely drops below 50fps even with 8 cars though and there extra cores help (also power usage goes bit higher, hence 80W there), but even 59.9fps makes screen move in big chunks instead of smoothness of vsync limited 60fps, so I find practical limit is 5 cars for this map to never drop below 60fps. (or then using bit lighter vehicle than cement mixer which again allows bit more leeway in that poor core)

Some traffic signs eat cars.

There are some roads missing on town area, AI is using grass to drive.

Tennessee drivers don't have any idea about speed limits, they like to drive bit under, also they make U-turns in ridiculous places, that is happening realistically as is sudden brake check on straight roads

Nordschleife island map I could keep 9 AI cars, which is one of the best results. Map graphics play large part of how much room there is in one highly taxed core, graphics settings affect that as well as vehicles one uses, but considering I'm running 4.8Ghz laptop with less clock speed will struggle more and adding more CPU render load is not helping, but also I think that with SSAO on, your GPU might struggle too, because it is quite easy to get 80% GPU loads with gtx1080 if using SSAO, but here I get something like 35% GPU load using normal details and none of those super expensive eye candy things.

For SSAO effect without SSAO, lower brightness of the screen, so it is bit dark and hard to see gauges it is surprisingly similar effect

Anyway, consider this, it used to be that same kind of fps with one single car before 0.15 update where devs improved performance a lot, so it is about 6 times better now. AI police is just too slow.

 

...I looked at it quickly, and I'm not quite sure about it. Doesn't give off the same feeling, but I can just deal with the slight lag.

 

It can be that you have better eyes, mine make everything look like a blurry mess, in a way it is cheaper, but in a way any disruption in smoothness looks very bad.

 

Yeah, probably that

 

Your post is fine - that's what the discussion forum is for, for the map, it's performance, how well computers run it, etc. I can't design a decent map for the people if I do not know what kind of computers I am designing it for (being honest here, I don't have the hardware feedback the developers get, but I don't have a super-duper-snazzy new PC either, it's kind of 'Meh' these days - but not out-for-the-count yet).
Your Laptop should be just fine. Some performance tips follow, akin to what FUFSGFEN said.
Turn down or turn off reflections (depending if you like to use the mirrors or not), these are one of the single-most-intensive performance-busting things here. Even on my desktop, I can't run max reflections without losing a small bit of FPS here and there. So long as I don't max them, it doesn't hit me too hard. More vehicles obviously makes this more drastic, especially in busy scenes in town.
SSAO doesn't make that big of a performance hit here, I am pretty sure it's card-dependent in addition to repeated additional calls for more scene rendering (draw calls) on the CPU. Draw calls just is your cpu telling the GPU it needs something put on screen. This happens thousands of times PER FRAME. A few more doesn't hurt much, but they all add up, and a hundred more on a rural scene can go easily to busy scene being an extra 500~1000 draw calls extra for SSAO. SSAO (Soft-Shadow Ambient Occlusion) is just a way to give a more natural look to shadows and things such as trees, so they don't look so grainy. I didn't use it on my 7850 2GB Radeon card because it hurt FPS too much (which at the time, got 28~45fps in Harriman without reflections even on, on medium), but on this one it doesn't bother FPS by more than 3~5fps max.
Shadows on the other hand, are a different story. If you're running a lot of vehicles, I'd keep shadows on either 'vehicle / player only' or OFF, that'll help the laptop processor match it's desktop counter-part in performance a little better - by making up for the missing GHZ between your portable model and the non-portable, power-munching desktop version. This is especially true in town - as the performance hit from shadows is exponential.

I don't think you necessarily overpaid for the laptop when you got it - hey I'd be very proud to have a 7700HQ laptop for 1200$ depending when I purchased it. That's a fairly new processor yet (not the absolute-newest, but they had a lot of those 7xxx series chips in stock, and I think intel is still making the mobile 7xxx series yet IIRC). That machine is capable provided you realize that the 7700HQ processor DOES NOT stand on equal footing with the desktop 7700K. Not bashing the machine at all, as it's certainly quite capable, but the laptop is clocked a little bit lower to use MUCH LESS power. I mean that - as the last few hundred MHZ towards 4ghz and above, on the desktop chips, REALLY starts to use more power. In fact, a 4ghz chip normally uses TWICE the wattage a 2.8ghz chip does, up until very recently with 14nm and lower process of manufacture. My 4790k uses 80w at it's stock 4ghz but 105w or so with all cores at 4.4ghz. That's over a 25% increase in power use, for a 10% overclock on all cores (technically, it's just 'all cores' running at the 'single core' turbo speed, with a little more voltage on it). Safe to say, there's nothing efficient about this machine, but I've had much worse. It's still a great machine and I'd keep it quite some time if I were you. I am sure this game will be at-least a little less single-core-dependent and hence running better when it hits official release, and surely I can work some more tweaks into the map with better, more efficient models, and similar things of that nature in time.
Don't feel bad about your computer, it's plenty recent, more recent than mine. Add more ram if anything, but otherwise, especially if you have GTX 1060 6g video or something similar like 1050 4gb card, it's perfectly fine to do what you need it to do. This map is HUGE, and is pushing a pre-release game to (and sometimes beyond) it's limits. Performance is a prayer we make and hope for, not a given (sometimes not even a given in AAA games). Sometimes the BeamNG gods even grant our wish every now and then if we're good for it.

---

@fufsgfen The vehicles driving on the grass *could* be intentional, as AI lanes and such aren't always put down at the same time as decal roads, and could have been plotted out earlier in this case. It's likely unfinished, but if you want to send a picture, I could work that 'fix' into the next update - whenever that is - I don't have an ETA on when this map will be updated next. It could be a glitched-out decal road from the 0.8 or 0.9x game-version update yet, but it's likely what I mentioned first.

I am not very happy that signs eat cars, that didn't make the fix; but I think I will modify the signs in the future so they don't have collision, except for the traffic light / utility poles, that collision will stay.

Send in pictures of where vehicles brake-check often on roads. I thought I fixed the majority of that, but I obviously was mistaken. That's likely decal road (or AI road overlay invisibly on-top) nodes spread TOO FAR apart. This can occasionally happen near MID TOWN, which is south of Kingston over the 2-lane bridge & keep going for MILES. If you find an area where they consistently do it, do send in a few shots of the area (possibly with some directions to it!), and I will look into posting a patched main level object JSON file to correct it for your use-case. The area near MID TOWN is rather rough, though, admittedly. Maybe one day Mid-Town will get a building, or two. Maybe. That place is a good 8 miles or more from the interstate, so it's low on the priority list.
--- Post updated ---

That's a driver issue - use DISPLAY DRIVER UNINSTALLER from Guru3d.com (safe for work link!) to remove RADEON graphics suite/driver, reboot after eradicating driver, re-install new GPU driver (that you hopefully got before-hand), and reboot again, now try it out. Should fix your woes. Contact me or message back here if you have fixed it or broken it worse.
EDIT: You have (by your specs) an RX 580, I have an RX 480 - literally the SAME gpu core, card and all, samsung VRAM on the card included. It's literally a refresh on the same product with a bit higher clocks to compensate. It's not the card, it's 99.99% surely the driver. I forget what version I have, but I think I refreshed it a few months ago. Contact me back as stated and let me know how it goes. Also, make sure to delete your CACHE folder after you install the new driver, before you run the game - just in case.

 

@bob.blunderton Huh...alright...by the way, the site must have shuffled and updated since I got it, but this is the site I got it from, the company being "Sager"

Just realized that System Information exists, so this is all of the info in "Processor"
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz, 2801 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)

We did pay up to $1,200, so I guess it wasn't that bad either way.

No, I very rarely use reflections unless it's a night shot (ffs I want this fixed now) or for something needing of it. Also, Partial is for not having shadows on all vehicles? I never knew of that. Could help I suppose, yet I don't spawn too many vehicles too often. 2-3 depending on the map is my limit without it looking almost like a slideshow.

Does the amount of space your pc have really limit performance A ton? I heard that somewhere, might be Fufsgfen, but not sure.

Adding more RAM? What type of RAM if I'm thinking of the wrong one, and how would one do that? Wouldn't that mean something physical, which is rare for laptops?

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
Also found this. Is this right?

 

GTX 1060 6GB should be just dandy, even a 3GB card will run this game alright without reflections above medium, and with medium to high texture detail depending on the map (this map requires 4GB on 'high' texture details, stock maps may use much less video ram or 'VRAM' for short).
No, the amount of space left does NOT have a drastic performance impact on the computer performance, unless:
*You fill up the drive almost all the way or completely, and it needs to use Virtual Memory (a small portion of the c: drive that acts as 'extra' RAM for when you run out of system memory), but doesn't have the space for it, causing Windows to get panicky and a possible program crash could occur (such as 0xFFFFFFFF error from BeamNG, which means out of System RAM).
*You fill up the drive 80+ % of the way and you wish to write a bunch of stuff to a solid state drive, meaning it has less things to write too simultaneously, so it's slower, and some drives need to read partially filled pages of data, add new data to it to fill up that section, and write it all back, which can cause long large file writes or transfers to drop off after 10~20 seconds harshly. Hard disk drives also get slower towards the end, because they write to a spinning platter (like a CD but thicker and made of metallic composite or alloyed material), writing first to the outside, then later it works it's way to the inside edge of the drive (the reverse of a CD, but on a Hard Drive or a CD or even a floppy disk, more data passes under the read-write head near the outside VS the inside-most tracks).

To RAM or not to RAM, that is the question...

When I mentioned about upgrading RAM, if you've used the PC a while, it could get a little pokey after a while especially with lots of things open, or when running this map for a while. That's when you want to add more system memory, or 'RAM' (short for 'random access memory'), to the PC. 8GB is sufficient for light to moderate gaming and most people wouldn't notice more of it, but sometimes you *need* more, and not having enough means some things might crash after a while, or will refuse to run at all (we're not quite there yet with memory requirements where 8GB isn't enough, and might not be for a while yet). However, there's really no such thing as 'too much' RAM. It can be found what type of RAM you need by calling your system manufacturer, if they have a local toll-free number, or by looking at the spec-sheet for your model PC. It's likely using DDR4-2133mhz SO-DIMM memory at 1.35v or less, but some use DDR3L SO-DIMM as a cost-saving option (at-least, on desktops, they sometimes use DDR3L, some boards even use it up to the newest CPU's, just not often is SO-DIMM memory used in desktops aside of small form factor PC's).
Often the only way to tell, is to look up how to upgrade the memory on your model of laptop, and remove the small door (usually on the bottom of the unit) that hides the system memory upgrade area. If your laptop is NOT able to have more memory added (some are like this!), it won't have the access door for it either. When you open said door, it will reveal one or two modules of memory slotted into the board. Match this model number's specifications with the new, larger capacity RAM you order. If you wanted 16GB of memory, you'd want 2x8GB, but only if you have 2x4GB currently. If you have 1x8GB, and you have only one stick, you'll want to get a matching stick for it. Often independent PC repair shops can do this quite cheaply for you and may even have it already in stock. Memory works fastest in even pairs in the majority of computers today, but will possibly refuse to boot with mis-matched sets of RAM, so be cautious. Don't void your warranty by opening the machine up if you can help it. Just be aware of what static electricity is, and if you're looking for the model number or specific data on the RAM stick in the bottom of your machine, don't TOUCH the circuit boards in there, you could cause it to NOT work. Only attempt this is you have worked with PC's hardware before, or have a knowledgeable person on stand-by.

If you have:
One stick of 8GB, and one slot open: Buy another 8GB stick that matches the 1st one, and install it with the original, that will be plenty for the life of the machine for it's useful (gaming) future.
Two sticks of 4GB, and zero open slots: Buy two sticks of 8GB, and install them after removing the old 2x 4GB sticks.
Two stick of 4GB, and one open slot: This is a more rare case, consult your owners manual or spec sheet for help, not all the systems are the same.
Zero sticks of memory and one open slot (main memory is soldered to the mainboard) : Buy an 8gb stick and install it.
Zero sticks of memory, no memory door, no slots: Unit is not able to be upgraded, this is more common in Chromebook / Netbook type machines, not as common on higher-end machines.

I hope this wasn't too confusing for you - it might be - I can't always type this stuff out the best - and I've only had one~two hours of sleep last night.
Just make sure you get memory that runs on the same voltage, at the same speed, otherwise your computer might not boot, and if it does, might not be 100% stable. Again, if this is daunting, I totally get that, have a tech-savvy friend over. Ram WILL NOT give you MORE FPS, it will however reduce lag and hitching that may occur periodically when assets are loaded into or swapped out of RAM, or when switching applications. More RAM will however, let you likely run a few vehicles without worrying about hitting the RAM limit. Honestly, you're best served by holding off on upgrading until you're really sure you need it, by watching Windows TASK MANAGER performance tab to see if the machine is running out of RAM and there's less than 1 GB left free.

--Good Lucky!

 

Amount of free space should not really affect performance, only if your drive is very full. Gone are days of early SSD when loading times increased with more stuff you had on drive.

 

Alright, I'll look into that, probably send this to my mother, maybe ask her some day about looking into PC repair shops. I mean, there is also not having more than one friend...……..Either way, really glad I could both be confused and hopeful, lol. Thanks Fufsgfen and Bob.

 

I got a 1060 with 6 gb and im rather underwhelmed with the performance i cant even max out older games and i only got a fps gain of around 10fps over my 750ti should've invested more in a 1080

 

Thanks Bob, sadly no luck, tried the latest 19.3.3 driver and the old 18.5.1 driver ( which is supposed to be Beam stable aparently) using DDU to unistall the drivers each time, pretty neat tool, I'll be keeping this one on my troubleshooting thumbdrive. Still getting the weird artifacting. Might try memtest next, I've been having issues with dirty contacts in my memory slots lately.

 

I can't max out Project cars for example, gtx1080 is not enough fast, but also one core is not enough fast it is pretty much maxing out with single car and 4.8Ghz in that.
There is quite lot of games though that were running maxed out at 60fps with 1050Ti and that is 75W card or so, while gtx1060 is 120W card and 1080 is 180W card, it is surprising that 1060 is not quite enough, but it can be that it is not quite similar performance per watt.

Then again majority of games tend to be such that I don't like them, especially mainstream monsters on your face kind scary things, those I stay away from.

Also in BeamNG I keep SSAO off, with that it is super easy to max out GPU if CPU has enough fast core speed, that setting is certainly not gtx1060 friendly.


One thing about 180W GPU though, it does warm up, even it is not running very hot, not much over 60C with custom fan curve, it still is putting lot of heat to case which needs to be get rid of then, it is big card has lot of surface area that all seems to dissipate heat to case, so cases with closed tops will need quite serious airflow to keep from heating up. Mine is open top model, which is super easy to cool off, just get little bit cool air in and there is natural airflow pulling all the heat out.

Only Tail of the Dragon of Bob's maps is one that needs good GPU though (with ssao, reflections and few Automation cars it can max out gtx1080), Roane County is really light for GPU, but needs a good CPU speed with traffic, with single car this map runs even on potato I think.

 

Well, you could try that, but wouldn't dirty contacts would have shown up as general computer instabilities before now (unless they have)? Good to blast-out the dust though.
I would consider downloading the map zip again, and clearing cache dir for it again (the cache dir would be beamng.drive\cache.0.15.???\levels\southernhighway).

MAKE SURE you do not have TWO versions of the map. I think it said ZIP FILE NAME HAS CHANGED on the repo here. I tried to keep it the same, but oops.

To be honestly, I was just slightly underwhelmed going from a Radeon 7850 2gb to a RX 480 8gb, too. Only when it came to Fallout 4 performance. The reason you and I are both underwhelmed lies in DX11 and prior API's for graphics. We're stuck on single core performance with that. It's draw calls that are limiting the GPU from going any faster, because it's waiting on the CPU to process LOTS of little draw calls, and it's a pain in the neck - the bane of PC gaming right now. Hence, DX12 (which is now available in limited form on Windows 7, too now!) has worked around this, along with the VULKAN API and can get around this limitation by multi-threading draw calls.
Draw calls, if it hasn't been explained on this page already, are the CPU telling the GPU that "I need x y and z surfaces rendered on this object with the same texture, as all the UV's (graphical surfaces) of the polygon are linked and the same texture, we'll render this many at once". If UV's aren't linked, or there lots of orphaned surfaces with different textures, you won't get much scene drawn in DX11 or prior before the FPS drops. Just 4000 draw calls in the old version of the game would make 60fps no-longer a reality on all but the fastest systems. GPU's on the other hand, if you render things right, can render millions of triangles (half a surface, or less) per frame. So you have to have a balancing act here.
0.14.x update for the game at the end of last fall / beginning of this winter (and it's officially spring finally!), addressed this issue by doing better batching on objects, so when identical objects in the same 'level of detail' get rendered, they ALL get rendered at once, and the rendering pipeline was also more stream-lined in other ways too. This was evident with a 3x FPS boost in downtown Harriman. One spot for me by the bank in downtown Harriman went from 18~22fps to 72 (!) fps just with a simple game update to the rendering engine. I was just WOW.
Fallout 4 in the downtown area of the game also suffers from this 'draw call fatigue'. Lots and lots of draw calls, due to old engine design, and settlements being nearby, and is made worse with using 'scrap mods' (which I used, would build a huge town, and then moan it gets under 60fps in spots), which defeats the combining of like objects.

So yes, entirely, you might not be served by a GPU upgrade, it might be game-engine inefficiencies or map inefficiencies depending on the game engine. Your 1060 6gb is much more powerful than a 750 ti and has much, much more memory on it. If you're waiting for the processor, though, the GPU is sitting idle, sleeping away.
To compound things, as Fufsgfen has said in other threads, the LUA scripting engine can severely hold up the game at times, too, with LOTS of vehicles running on a 8+ core CPU, or even when you have the minimap on in Roane County TN, things may jam up on a single-core. That being said, the interface itself is more separated from the game's FPS than it used to be, so things have gotten a little better.