West Coast USA... (Old thread)

I understand all of this. This is more of a "go wild and see how far I can go" sort of concept than "practical for map improvements". It's more of a dream map than logical for the game.

 

This is a very informative post, but I think West Coast USA needs an FPS update, a slight expansion (it doesn't have to be as big as DriftinCovet1987's concept), and a remaster in general soon. By the way, I heard it's getting an optimization update.

 

Heres my practical version of west coast layout , island would be Alcatraz

 

Island? How original!

 

The city is so hilariously small

 

TL: DR Realistically sized cities can't work in BeamNG (or most games).

 

Belasco doesn’t have to be realistically sized, but it needs to be bigger than it is now.

 

Well then the map would just be endless buildings on an Island, don't think It would really add much and you'd still be lucky to get half a mile of highway before it'd dead end. Someway to loop it would be nice too I guess, but much like Utah it only takes a minute to drive around it.

 

Not bigger but more believable and clever crafted. For many people (including me) the reason why Belasco feels odd is because on area of post stamp there are almost every possible districts in it: port and harbour, industrial site, commercial and parts of residential. Change it to simply harbour and industrial with parts of residential area and move existing buildings to new map.

 

Here is a top view of current map, my city would be about 1.5x the size.... manageable

 

1,5x the size but with what cost? That time put into rebuilding whole map and ruining that GORGEOUS race track which is the best in the game? Tbh that race track is the reason why this map exist for me.

 

I love that track too. But i never find myself driving in and out of it interchangeably with the rest of the map, so i wouldnt mind if it was its own level, or just have the old west coast as a mod download at the very least. I mean it takes up like 1/3 of the map and thats just way too much

 

Then you run into the problem of those like you who enjoy the race track but never touch the city and or lag due to all the city assets. Most people who see WCUSA from the default image may think it's a city based map not a race course - city mess. Very few people say remove the race track completely from the game but make it's own map (which I'm incline to agree with since the map can't be made bigger without a complete remake).

Just something I'd like to add. I would not be sadden by the complete removal of WCUSA in return for a complete redesign of the map with a larger 4X4k map and either the race track being 100% removed and made it's own map OR it be moved to either A the Island or B to the outskirts of the map and be dammed backwards compatibility for WCUSA. The map is so not put together right and is such a mishmash of 20 different things that it makes no sense of what it's trying to do.
ECUSA: is a small rural town on the Coast of Maine with a dense forest
JRI: is a abandoned island in the Pacific I think? I still don't like JRI but its not as decisive as WCUSA.
Italy: is a Island off the main coast of Italy and has everything a Island like that needs to keep going while feeling alive and not unrealistic.
Small Island USA revamped: now is a bird sanctuary and tourist island with some old rally courses of the coast of CA (despite the map description).
Utah: Is a national park good for offroading and rally races.
All the other small maps are little quirk maps (such as cliff) or small areas to do things in a designated area that map very little sense in all normal maps (such as Derby Arenas or Port).

Before I finish I want to say 1 thing. Despite my post I do NOT want WCUSA to be 100% removed from the game Nor do I want and devs who worked on this map to feel bad about making this map. All I'm trying to say is this regarding future development on new or existing maps (please JRI when ; - ;.
1. Don't shove more things to try and fit things into a map that is already cramped
2: Don't have major roads that players are suppose to travel on suddenly come to a stop and for them to see the clear edge of the world from said roads (Utah is a good example of a roads that leave the level but you can't use)
3: Pick a major theme and don't have more than 2 major themes right on top of each other, some exemptions are ok (port and city for example). (WCUSA has City, suburbs, race track, and a port all competing for the exact same spot).

Last thing. I know what WCUSA is suppose to be for but it don'st work for lower end players and for other it makes the map either 50% useless or to cluttered to make sense. I am the ladder. I do hope the best for the future of all map and vehicle revamps and new game content I can't just be quiet on WCUSA and (current JRI) messiness on map enjoyment. (send off note I am not a map designer just someone who has enjoyed all but 2 of the large maps made by the Beamng.drive devs).

 

WCUSA is actually my favorite map because of the race track that is built in. It’s so cool to load a track car into the trailer, drive it to the track, and start racing. WCUSA was a pioneer in the map making community, and I don’t think any other official map has done the same thing since. It’s extremely detailed and fun, and the variety is what makes it so cool.

Yes, it would be awesome if this map was bigger, but I understand why it was kept on the smaller side. It was made when large maps were not optimized very well at all in Torque3D, and I do believe we’re going to be seeing some major performance optimizations(I don’t really see any performance issues, it runs fine on both my laptop and my desktop, a lot smoother than Italy.)

I can’t say I would be heartbroken if the race track was replaced with more city and highways, but IMO, that’s what makes this map so unique.

 

I agree with NadeoX1 in all ways. Also, making a map that big makes the car meshes shake like crazy due to the fact that they are Floating Point calculated. FPU or something like that is what the process is called. Floating Point gets less accurate the farther you go away from the 0 point. In theory, if BeamNG supported loading maps in chunks (Meaning chunks would have their own heightmap, objects, and other stuff) this limitation is removed from the equation. Then, maps of this size would be possible. But until Torque3D supports this, and the BeamNG development team is large enough to handle the huge amount of added work and are willing to put their resources at stuff like this, then we gotta live with the way the game and it's content currently is. And to be honest, I think West Coast USA is a really good map with how they managed to get into the game and its current limitations.

 

To be fair, I didn't clarify this before flinging my concept all over the place, so...yeah. Can't blame you or Nadeox for being mistaken.

 

It is probably valuable to recognize what Bob has done so far. While has maps aren’t as asset-dense as dev maps (excluding The Tail of the Dragon), their sheer scale is staggering. WCUSA is 1.6mi^2. His Roane County is 132mi^2. His new city map is hilariously large as well. His work is very impressive, and he might be the primary expert on “big maps” of this forum. I haven’t looked through to see if he’s said anything, but it seems like the aftermarket mod community has made really big maps before. American Roads has some impressive detail to it and it’s 120mi^2. If a city was added to it, it might be the ideal map.

Also, out of curiousity, what makes big maps so difficult to make and run in Beamng as opposed to say something like FH4? What about the rendering process makes it far more power hungry?

 

Different game engines? Torque 3D is old and don't have many options and optimization. This engine isn't designed for big maps. Modern game engines usually render big maps in chunks so not everything need to be rendered at once. In Torque 3D whole map is loaded at once. That why Italy need more RAM than other maps. And that why there are warnings for modded big maps above 4x4km that for running it you need more RAM than usual (for example that Dragon Tail need 8GB minimum to run it somehow playable and it is 8x8km map). Heigh maps were mentioned few post before which is another problem.

So because map itself need that amount of RAM to load now imagine you need place a lot of details. Best example is WCUSA and ECUSA. Both are 2x2 maps but one is playable and second one is horrid to run sometimes.

Speaking of city maps. This reminded me of one other idea with "out of boundaries" roads that might actually work pretty well. Overpasses and expressways like in Tokyo or New York or other big concrete jungle.


Playable area would have "ground level" roads and all other features like details. However these highway roads would be high enough that player wouldn't notice that it leaves "playable area" so map could feel bigger than actually is.

 

I do like WCA alot, although there are some areas and unused space which could use some polishing:

 

I agree with you about the construction site, empty lots, and the road near the hospital. I also think that after some optimizations there should be some alleyways cutting through the blocks, and some of the inner-city parking complexes should be at least partly accessible.

However, at least a few of those examples are too near to or past the edge of the level.