Bruckell Bastion Aerodynamics

The cars aerodynamics is not very slippery through the air. Real life 2015 Dodge Charger Hellcat has 881 nm torque and 707 ps and can achieve 206.9 mph top speed (and also look how quickly it's climbing there) and the in game Redtail with 1151 nm and 820 ps can achieve 209 mph. I would think it would be higher than this but i was scratching my head while modifying it and trying to make a hellcat spec for it why it would struggle so much to reach top speed always getting close to 5500 rpm it will start to really choke out and crawl up to 209. Is this something that needs to be fixed or is the Bastion supposed to be this aerodynamic as it is? Maybe it's not aerodynamics but something else?

Go to 6:39 for top speed test of redtail in second video.

 

Okay the bastion is it’s own thing. Nothing in beamng is a copy of a real life car. It’s loosely related to the charger, not a carbon copy.

 

Ok yes i get it but the efficiency would be nice to bring up no?

 

Doesn't really answer their question. In fact now I'm a bit concerned. Are other cars aerodynamically inefficient? Maybe there's a problem with how friction or aero is modeled?

 

I dont think its a problem with how its modelled but how the car shape is designed by the artist. Even though its a game it still needs correctly calculated shape to cut hole through the air with efficiency.

 

maybe the scaled drag coef is to high? idk. does beam actually simulate the shape of the car going through the air? i thought it was just assigned values that determine how good it cuts through air.
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the bastion has a higher scaled drag coef than the moonhawk? the bastion should be more aerodynamic id feel. make no sense a literal box cuts through the air at speed better than a modern car.

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also though a lot probably depends on the amount of nodes and crap so maybe even though the value is higher it actually cuts through the air better.

 

I think it was a typo and should have been 1.15 not 2.15 it is very likely and it makes sense since bolide is 0.9 and moonhawk 1.75. I have been looking for overall drag coefficient multiplier for a long time. Thank you for pointing it out. Surely it should be lower since the redtail has 1151 nm like a dragster yet struggles to reach 210 mph.

 

Really cool to see you guys are getting to the bottom of this. I wonder if that drag coefficient is THE drag coefficient of the car, or just a finer adjustment over it.

It's definitely not the same drag coefficient that comes up when you Google it (at least not the same units), since your tipycal car has 0.3 to 0.5.

Also you'd probably need a more sophisticated system anyway.

 

To do this kind of comparison, always remember to consider drivetrain gearing (both transmission and differential) and tire diameter (btw tire pressure affect tire diameter too). You have to do everything as equal as you can to make the most accurate comparison and so far I'm pretty sure that we are missing some important shit, like how are the underbody's aerodynamics (especially when we have to account for about lift), rotation inertias, tire compound friction/resistance, ground friction/resistance, air density, air friction/resistance, ground clearance at that speed, among a lot of others. In short, I'd say that it's not possible at all to try and compare real life top speed runs to BeamNG and expect it to be in the same ballpark or consider it accurate. The only thing that I'd say that are, for the most part, comparable, are tendencies, scalars, and behavioral stuff.

I'd say that they kinda do, not directly, but they do bring up an important point; the same way as no one expects that the Civetta Bolide performs the same way as a Ferrari F40 (or whatever car you find resemblance). There isn't any Civetta Bolide's variant labeled as a Ferrari F40, therefore you should never expect that they (for example) have the same 0-100 km/h time, nor the same top speed.


If you have concerns with the aerodynamics (or whatever aspect of the game) use the tools that are at your disposal (in this case it would be aerodynamics debug), collect some data, and upon that develop your thoughts, concerns, or whatever and post them (with the data you used to lead you in that conclusion) in the appropriate forum thread (or create one). I'm sure that there are things on the aerodynamics that can be improved upon, and the devs will greatly appreciate your feedback or at least they will give you an explanation on why it behaves that way, but I don't believe that the first post can be very useful for the devs to troubleshoot or improve upon.

 

The overall drag was most likely a typo in the main bastion.jbeam under scaleddragcoef. It said 2.15 while moonhawk is 1.75 and bolide is 0.9 so it would make sense bastion was supposed to be 1.15 well i tried it and its perfect now.

 

hmm in my testing red tail is capable of 217 and the other one(forgot name) is 207 which is realistic to me and basically spot on with the irl counterparts. in beam altitude affects power and drag so that also will affect the top speed of vehicles so maybe you were on a map with high altitude?.
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also noticedwhen you were testing the top speed you wernt in the sport modes. the red tail in savage mode makes more power. causeyou were in sport mode you wernt getting all 800 horses also in the sport modes the auto trans shifts quicker a crisper making the cars faster.
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see how much slower the red tail is in sport mode? its cause your missing about 100 horsepower till you change it to savage or esc off. i just kinda took your word for it at first but after testing myself the aero is fine.
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I was using 1151 nm 820 hp redtail which should be going way faster than 217 mph if it was not for too much drag.

 

the charger hell cat redeye which makes 800 horsepower hits 203. the challenger deamon which makes over 800 horsepower can hit 211 mph if the red tail was able to hit 225-230 mph thatd be absurd. id say its realistic right now.

 

Why does the 2015 hellcat charger with 707 hp hit 206 mph?

 

the 2015 hellcat hits 203 or 196 depending on different sources. the 707 horsepower battlehawk hits 207 which is right around the same as a hellcat. the redtail hits 217 which is hard to compare due to there not being a deamon charger but thats about in the same ball park as the challenger deamon and actually a couple mph faster which id say is realistic.
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i think i got the charger red eye wrong. its hard to find top speed for that specific one.

 

My mistake was to put the 2015 engine with 881 nm and 707 hp into the redtail and thinking it would go easily to 205 when it really doesnt. That youtube video shows it blasting to 328 which is 204 and it had even more in him maybe that guy tuned it?

 

idk? it really seemed to be struggling to gain speed at the top end there in the vid maybe it would have gone a mph higher or two? the fact it's in kph kinda gives the illusion that its accelerating faster than it really is.

 

Yea but to do 206 with just 707 hp and 881 nm when the newer cars go 203 with 800 hp and 958 nm is backwards progress. They might have geared them shorter for better 1/4 mile times.

 

you talking about the charger red eye? i got that wrong the top speed i said is wrong i cant find a top speed for that one.

 

It says on google its a 203 mph car this 2022 hellcat charger redeye with 797 hp it says here and 707 lb ft torque which is 956 nm. Someone needs to confirm if the gearing is longer or shorter that would settle it.