Steam keys: available for alpha testers

yes, it is optional in that you don't have to have it running to play the game, which is how DRM works, it's required to be running to play the game, if steam HAD to be open for the game to run, then you would be correct, however steam is used for updating/installing and NOTHING else (for the moment anyway, no idea what the dev's plans are atm)

 

Your definition of DRM is too narrow and doesn't include things which are obviously DRM.

For example, deletion of local files by a mandatory client (to download/install, but not run) is DRM, but not covered by your definition.

 

Wat, steam doesnt delete stuff unless you ask it too, I believe your now confusing steam with a pc virus

 

After reading again, I'm not sure what they meant by deletion of files. I've never had that using Steam. Though, I do think they mean a game is non-DRM-free if it can't be run without using a client.

I may have to investigate this file deletion thing. I'll try uninstalling Steam to see what happens to my other games. If the files are still there (I think uninstalling won't delete any of my games) I'm sure some, or most, of them won't start without Steam. Who knows? Some of them may work unsuspectingly. Only time will tell.

- - Edit - -

After reading your previous post again, I noticed that mine is a little redundant.

 

Unless you could find the installer under a rock in the island you would've had to download it first, so what would be the difference if you download it from the website or from steam? You could think of Steam as a download manager for this game, because that's what it does, download & update. If you were stranded on an island you could play with the version downloaded from steam, as IT IS NOT REQUIRED to play.

 

Yes, it does. Again with people taking a derogatory tone with me because they can't read my posts and can't be bothered to check their assertions. I didn't even say Steam did this.

 

1 year old story, and caused by this: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7388-QPFN-2491

No game was deleted or had to be downloaded again, people just weren't patient through the proccess.


Again throwing shit to steam for no reason. We get it you somehow hate it, but the platform is awesome and all you do is miss all the good stuff it has because of fear, as you say, fear that steam will deprive you from playing your games or delete your games for no reason, or the DRM thing you mention all the time. Explain me what's the difference of logging into steam and downloading the game from logging into this website and downloading the game. I can tell you, updating will be much easier with steam as it is automatic, and faster with better servers.

 

I can use software I trust to download it from the website (e.g. one I have coded myself). I cannot use software I trust to download it from Steam.

Explain to me how I play any given version of a Steam exclusive "DRM-free" game for the first time, without getting permission, which can be revoked at any time, from Steam, who are an unnecessary requirement as the files can be provided by other means.

Steam isn't just a download manager for Steam-exclusive, but otherwise DRM-free, games. It is a gatekeeper.

It doesn't matter if I can run v0.33 whenever I want, if I can't download v1.0 when it gets released because Steam says no.

 

What and the fact I need to type a serial number into the updater for BeamNG the traditional way isnt a gatekeeper? The way I have to key in CD keys on hard copies of games isnt a gatekeeper? The way I have to log into GoG or Humble Bundle isnt a gatekeeper?

I define DRM not as part of the installation process but as a thing which prevents the game from running without being present, such as simcity requiring a network connection at all times (although last I heard they were sensibly ditching that, I don't own the game so don't know if it has been dumped yet). Steam is just the download manager right now and that is it.

Also steam has a feature simply called Betas, a few games have actually left previous versions of the game under the betas tab so if you right click the game in your library, go to properties, betas, then you can opt into the betas for that game and choose a beta build from a big old list which just so happens to be release builds of older game versions rather than actual betas. It is cheating the system a little bit, but I've seen it used in that way (and of course it can be used for genuine betas of upcoming game updates).

Actually it seems I misread your post there, somehow thought you were referring to an inability to play older game versions via steam. But I guess I might aswell leave that last paragraph and image up.






What was your original issue with steam anyway then?

 

The second paragraph of the first post:

Post #6:

Post #10:

I strongly suggest that you read the evidence I present, before you tell me I'm wrong. How long ago it happened is irrelevant. Why it happened is also irrelevant. It proves the statement of "Steam doesn't delete files without asking you" wrong because files were deleted without asking the user. Hell, the automatic update thing refutes it in itself. Steam never asked me if I want to automatically update and it deletes old files. Therefore, it deletes files without my permission. Yes, I know I can tell it not to, that doesn't mean it asked my permission in the first place (it was assumed).

Read through my previous posts, I've already refuted the "faster with better servers" bit.

 

Btw, you can turn off automatic updating....

 

What I highlighted, unfounded fear. That will never happen. They may reserve that right for certain situations, like someone pays with paypal and then asks for a refund through paypal, and knowing paypal the buyer wins 99% of the cases involving digital goods, so steam has its right to revoke your permission to play that game.

 

As far as I know, the updater isn't a gatekeeper to the game, as you could download the latest version installer from the site (2 separate links, one on the download page and one on the forum). However, I only know what is in the latest version of BeamNG from watching kurtjmac. As I can't run it, I have no idea if the installer you download is the latest version..

The way you log into GOG or HB is a gatekeeper. However, they are acceptable gatekeepers.

If you take the approach of "no gatekeepers are acceptable", you end up in a non-sensical situation where you are unable to download anything you buy.

So a gatekeeper is an absolute requirement. So far, Steam is an acceptable gatekeeper.
One of the functions of a gatekeeper is ascertaining you have the right to download the file (i.e. logging in). This is an absolute requirement too. So far, Steam is an acceptable gatekeeper.
Once you are past the gatekeeper, you have acquired what you own and can use it as you wish. Again, Steam is an acceptable gatekeeper, providing the game isn't "tied" to Steam (e.g. BeamNG).

Now is where it diverges. Once I have left the "keep" of the GOG or HB website, they cannot assert control over what I have already left with. Not only is this how it is intended to work, they can't retroactively even attempt to assert control, even if they want to. I can back to GOG or HB website at any time and under no circumstances can they attempt to assert control. I can make further requests from them at no risk to my local files.

However, because Steam runs on your machine, they can make an attempt to retroactively take it back. Launching Steam to update game X does not prevent Steam taking action against game Y. It may just be trying to delete it from SteamApps. It may attempt to scan your computer for it and delete it where it finds it. It may lay a "trip" in the registry so the game won't run with a specific key or delete the serial from the registry. Steam can attempt to assert control over things already on your computer that are "nothing" to do with it (copy of BeamNG SteamApps directory in "My Documents"). I cannot make further requests from Steam with no risk to my local files. Now, Steam is not an acceptable gatekeeper (because they can leave the gate and come after me, however futile it may be).

And because most people won't back up the DRM-free games they have on Steam, just the deleting of it from SteamApps would be quite effective.

Not only that, Steam isn't an acceptable gatekeeper because they have a history of denying people access to their legitimately purchased games. Buy 100 Steam-exclusive games. Break Steam's EULA so they can, legally, deny you access to their service. What are you going to do? You can't sue Steam because they have the legal right to deny you access for breaking their rules. You can't sue the people you brought the game from because, you know, you bought a license, which you still have.

It's basically a case of "What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak".

I purchased 4 copies of a Steam-exclusive online multiplayer co-op game (directly from the Steam Store) at my girlfriends request, so we could play together (I gifted the extra 2 copies to some people).
I log into my account, then log into my account on Steam and download the game.
She then logs into her account, then her account on Steam and downloads the game.

However, we can't play together as Steam prevents us from both launching the game at the same time. You can't launch the game without Steam running and Steam will only run for the first person who starts it.

I contacted Valve and this behaviour is intended and won't be changed, ever.

- - - Updated - - -

I know. It doesn't prevent Steam deleting things off my computer without my permission (via bug or non-update code) though.

- - - Updated - - -

They also have the right to revoke your permission to access their system, which can prevent you from playing games you still own, due to them being Steam-exclusive.

And seeing how this happens to anyone who gets banned from Steam, it isn't an unfounded fear, because innocent people have been banned from Steam.

 

So you were trying to run steam+game twice on the same machine?

Steam running on 2 seperate machines or virtualised (although for gaming I guess you dont really want to be doing that) should be able to log into the 2 accounts seperately and then run the game fine.

 

Yes, which is a legitimate use case.

None of those are available solutions.
We recently had our first child, so the funds to buy a machine powerful enough to run it simply aren't available.
I can't virtualise because my CPU doesn't have VT-d, so no PCI-passthrough and running without that would render the game so slow as to be unplayable.

 

Even with PCI passthrough it would be "less than optimal" unless its a fairly old game. But yes I see the concern there, sadly to my knowledge there is no way to run 2 different steam instances on the same machine without virtualising OSes, definitely not officially. You may be able to find a crack to run the game standalone though, someone may slag me off for suggesting that but I'd say having purchased the game its justified in this situation if the game is using steam as DRM. If the game isnt using steam as DRM you might be able to force an instance to run standalone anyway, although a few games will only operate in single player like that.

 

I know of a way of running 2 instances of Steam without virtualising, but it Windows specific. I can't replicate my multi-seat setup in Windows and I haven't been able to replicate the solution in Linux.

As a somewhat amusing turn of events, I'm actually reimplementing the game so I can demonstrate to the developers that some mechanics in their game make no sense at all (it is possible to win 100-0, even though you should lose 15-100). Me and my girlfriend will be able to play the reimplementation together. Ah, the benefits of being a programmer.

 

You purchased 4 copies and gifted 2. So you had 2 on your account, right? Did you gift one to your girlfriend or were you trying to play with family sharing?

This seems like user error because I play cs:go and trackmania with people in the same house as me with no issues. Having two copies of a game on the same account seems like your problem based on what I read

 

Then you can sell the game for lots of monies which will all disappear after buying toys for your child (congrats btw).

I know what you mean about benefits to being a programmer though. Dunno if I still have it but I had a program I wrote which would sit there with a serial port open waiting for data and would spoof keyboard input to windows, specifically the media playback keys on my keyboard, get one of the various bluetooth serial apps on android and you have a remote which will operate whichever media application you have open on the PC rather than having 1 specific to VLC or whatever.

 

He was trying to play the game running 2 instances in 1 computer, of course it didn't work...