Paid Mods & BeamMP/KissMP

I'm somewhat worried this thread may devolve into a shitshow because of the mention of paid mods, but I feel like at some point there needs to be a proper discussion that encourages paid mod devs to think a little more as to how paid mods integrate with multiplayer in BeamNG, as it's a huge part of the game that isn't going away any time soon.
I'm hoping this can remain mostly civilised, as currently there are a few different ways of approaching it. On the one hand, the paid mod developers are understandably concerned about public servers redistributing their mods to anyone who joins them for a second. On the other hand, currently it's a massive shame that there are so many brilliant mods that can only be used in single player without breaking an honour system, as really all that means is people who are honest are having less fun than people who don't care.
I'm aware it's easy to say "well everyone on the server should've bought the mod or you don't use it" but let's be real here: we're all aware that, just as many people download paid mods off reuploading websites, many people won't bother listening to that. Furthermore, it seems a little silly that if one or two people want to use a particular mod an entire group of people will also have to pay for a mod they may never use.
As a YouTuber myself (feel like a tit typing this but it's relevant, i promise), it saddens me that despite the fact there are mods I have paid for there is no way for me to use them on my BeamMP server and in videos without going against the wishes of the authors - these would genuinely be good exposure for the mods themselves.
In the end, no matter what solution is proposed, people are gonna download mods off of 3rd party websites and use them on BeamMP and really bugger all can be done to stop it. However, it would be helpful if there was some genuine way that honest people could use paid mods with close friends on private servers in a way that both the mod devs are happy with and the server hosts are too.
It's at this point I'd like to suggest some solution that works for everyone, but i genuinely don't have one for this, hence why i'm inviting proper discussion on the topic. It may be that there is no real solution, in which case all that will happen is that people who host private servers and are honest will not use the mods and those who don't care will be. But it would be nice if there was some way that, although we all know a lot of people wont care, those who do actually want to support the devs and not annoy them would be able to use paid mods with a clear conscience.

 

We simply need a paid mod system in repo, in which your paid mods would be handled by the game itself. It would solve both people downloading paid mods from 3rd party stores and using paid mods in MP. The former is rather obvious, the latter would be fixed by allowing the paid mod to appear in MP lobbies but restricting its use for non-paying users, kinda like Forza does it.

Though this would require a lot of new infrastructure work, from payment processing to mod encryption, and, more importantly, integrating multiplayer mode into the game.

 

yeah, this would be ideal, but i just don't think it's ever gonna happen. even if it does, it's a few years away at least and there needs to be some sort of solution up until then. no solution that doesn't include encryption and checking logs of purchases or whatever isn't really gonna prevent anything, but more create a way for it to be done that doesnt piss off the authors

 

I haven't yet tried BeamMP, but from the OP I assume that it downloads mod packs from the server. Allowing users to download mods on their own and only then checking checksums to prevent tampering could be a solution to the mod distribution issue (though it'd lock you out if you didn't have a specific mod).

As for downloading paid mods from 3rd parties, well, as much as Disney tries, you can still watch the whole Mandalorian series on some .xyz domain. The history of piracy shows that instead of fighting fire with fire, you should provide more convenient alternatives to the common users. Steam has greatly decreased video game piracy, Spotify and Apple Music killed mp3s, and Netflix and alike shifted the entire movie industry towards a new distribution model. And so, people stealing mods is the price we pay for DRM-free mods in a DRM-free game, and until there is a centralized paid mod repo, we probably won't be able to do much about it.

 

yeah, so when you join a beammp server it automatically downloads all the mods and puts them in a separate folder to your normal mods folder, but theyre still easy to find and move to your normal mods folder. obviously i think that uploading paid mods to public servers (ones shown in the beammp server list) shouldnt be allowed, and really beammp should remove server off the list that are doing that, however here im talking about direct connections which are really impossible to moderate

i agree with your second point - i doubt anything paid modders do to prevent reuploading is ever truly going to work, though what lucasbe did by uploading the picnic directly to modland and telling the site owners to remove reuploads seems to have worked from my understanding.

 

This is an awful idea

 

Why?

So you're saying that beammp downloads your mods and puts them in a shared folder for other players joining the server? That's nuts.

 

when you set up a beammp server you create a client folder, and the mods you put in there are the ones loaded onto the server. when someone joins it downloads the mods through you from that folder into a beammp resources folder which is separate to the normal game mods folder but still easy to access and take the mods from

 

Oof

 

fivedollarlamp is against paid mods, no solution that facilitates them will be acceptable. In reality, it's the best solution so far.

 

Mod piracy will always exist no matter what's done to try and stop it. DRM/encryption harms the mod for paying customers and pirates who've bypassed it get the better experience. People who'd go on BeamMP to get the mod for free would never have bought it if there wasn't a method to get it for free. Not being able to access the files of a mod, or giving a random mod kernal level access sounds like a really sucky "solution" to something that was never even as big of a problem as it was made out to be.

 

I just don't think BeamNG was ever made to facilitate paid mods, let alone now (with multiplayer and whatnot). That much is obvious else we wouldn't be having this discussion. Sure, you can make paid mods and yes they can be very successful but greatly reducing or eliminating piracy completely here is extremely difficult/completely impossible depending on how you look at it. That's my 2 cents anyway

 

yeah, youre very right, it's trying to add into beam two completely different things that the game was never designed to have. it's just annoying because im fine with paying for good mods but i wish there was some way to use them on multiplayer, where i spent about 75% of my time on beam now, as most paid mod devs have either said nothing or have directly spoken against just putting them on a server but have offered no alternative

 

It's not a bad thing. BeamMP's devs have zero responsibility for preventing paid mods from being shared. Why should they needlessly complicate their software? They will not gain anything from doing so.

 

DRM is bad

 

I don't think mod encryption/DRM makes sense for the type of game that BeamNG is. Ever since mod development started on BeamNG, the devs have made the game's vehicle files viewable and accessible to all. This has been huge in allowing the community to learn to work with BeamNG's unique technology, and indeed, none of the paid mods today would exist if their authors didn't have access to free and open examples while they were getting started. It's a transparent game, and it should continue to stay transparent.

However, I am sympathetic to the mod makers who put in hundreds of hours into their mods and feel justified in charging a few bucks (and for content creators like @JowoHD who want to use their purchases in MP videos), and I've been thinking of a different approach: what if the BeamNG devs partnered with mod makers to create official DLC like the Content Creator Packs in games like Cities Skylines?

This wouldn't merely be a section for paid mods on the repo, but rather a real partnership between the BeamNG devs and modders to ensure a base level of quality and make sure that game updates don't break paid mods or make them outdated. Mod makers would of course take the lead on their projects, but the devs would step in if the mod makers have to take a break from development for any reason.

The advantage for the gamedevs would be that they could take a cut from sales and have more revenue to continue making great updates. The advantage for mod makers is that they could have a level of customer support, quality control, and technical assistance that they couldn't have solo, and they could have much more exposure (and thus revenue) if their creations were advertised as official DLC rather than "just" being mods on the repo that happen to be paid. This is especially the case if these vehicles were made as high-quality, BeamNG-supported DLC on Steam.

This could obviously be controversial (and the BeamNG devs would have to be very clear that future official content would continue to be free), but I think this is a way of mitigating the paid mods in MP issue: it wouldn't matter if people can obtain paid mods through MP or pirate websites if 10-50x the number of people are buying the mods in the first place. This collaborative model can work if done right (see: Arma 3 for another example), but people do expect mod DLC like this to have the same level of quality as official content.

 

A paid mod system somehow feels to be against the philosophy of BeamNG and the simplicity of handling mods and be able to take a look how a mod is made and works. Even all the vanilla stuff is open for everyone. It’s a bit of a non capitalistic approach here and I really like it. A paid mod system would take a lot of the Charme of BeamNG. If people want to capitalize their work they have to live with the risk of piracy in my opinion. The BeamNG community is so good and appreciates good work anyway.

 

I can tell you that I have done the right thing and bought some mods over the past year. There is not a single one that works correctly or needs some adjustment of slots or other items.

 

in my opinion i hate paid mods! beamng drive doesn't need them and it's just frustrating because some good mods are locked behind a paywall! (unless it has a demo but even then it's a demo)
now, i'm ok with you paying for the demo before it releases, it's not that bad
but having to pay for the full version is just wrong

 

So if you made a car from scratch, had to learn blender, learn jbeam and pay for expensive texturing software you would willingly give it out for free?