Forza and GT are tuned down? Bullshit. They're not PC-sim level but to call them "arcadish" is pure and utter snobbery and bullshit. You can't floor a powerful car in Forza without spinning out either idiot, I know because I actually own the fucking game.
I love how the guy makes a polite, clear post expressing his view, and along you come slamming him down telling him he knows nothing. If he presented his points like Makoto just above me I would understand, but it seems that whenever someone comes along expressing a different view to yourself, you turn a blind eye and tell them they're absolutely wrong. Your ego is astonishing, Gabe.
He comes in acting like his intuition is worth more than the years of research that have gone into the physics. His ego is astonishing. We have dealt with many people like this, who somehow think that their opinion of how things should happen is more accurate to reality than a physics engine built by experts. I see nothing polite about his post, just a constant ill-informed shitting on our hard work and demanding us to fix imagined problems. Most of the bitching and moaning about poor handling is nothing more than a lack of driving skill. There is a difference between smooth racetracks and kiddie suspension physics in Forza and GT5 and bumpy back roads and real suspension in a game like BeamNG. You'll find no complaints about our physics from actual physicists and engineers, just people who think they know everything because they played a racing sim or GTA 4. The tire physics have room for improvement but there's nothing wrong with the suspension simulation. The cars are not too bouncy. Your driving is too reckless. And after dealing with the same ill-informed complaints from the same people over the past year and a half it gets tiresome. You know how suspension works in GTA and Forza? It magically absorbs most of the force into the nether. Go airborne or catch a big bump and the force simply goes away, magically absorbed by some extra layer of suspension that isn't really there. The car doesn't really lose grip or get unsettled at all. We don't cheat it the way they do to make it easier to drive.
It was a bit snippy, but gabe (and the rest of the team) have been put through heck for the past week because people aren't used to physics, and before that during the past year or so because the videos. Wow, you are just sad. I agree, but I also foresee you and minderaser getting into an argument but you guys do kinda have to deal with this, and try not to argue, because you guys are a full company now. (Congrats!)
Agreed. Can I please direct anyone complaining about cars being "too hard to drive" to the covet rally competition I held. We took cars round corners at 60+ with no issues on a bumpy road, people even got air and topped 100 on dirt, why? because we didn't go flat out and skid out, we were gentle on brakes and throttle and we used a small amount of force on steering, furthermore, when do you see someone put there foot all the way down, then put their wheel all the way left to turn a real corner?. The game is a SIM and probably one of the most accurate ever made, so treat it like one.
Lawl... Maybe you should drive a real car. You'll feel how tuned down Forza and GT are if they weren't tuned down, you wouldn't be able to beat world records in a hypercar around world famous racetracks USING A CONSOLE CONTROLLER. If you want proof for this, it's simple: They claim to take the data from real cars for these games. If that's the case, there's no way more than 1% of the players of these games would EVER be able to beat these world records set by real cars on real tracks BY REAL RACING DRIVERS, otherwise those records would be broken in real life every day as well. And since anyone who plays these games for more than a few hours can beat any of the real life records, they MUST have changed something to make it easier, ie dumbed down/tuned down for kiddies. If you think Forza and GT are anywhere NEAR the realism of BeamNG, Live for Speed, Rfactor etc, you haven't EVER driven ANY real car or you must be like... numb... and have no sense of direction/weight/anything ever. On top of that, learn to flipping read man. Seriously. I never said they're arcadish. I said fake racing sims and arcade racers, and then said that Forza and GT are not close to real life at all. I'm not claiming they're arcady, cause they're not. That said, they're rubbish driving sims compared to proper PC ones. Hell, you don't even get dynamic camber/caster/toe changes in Forza/GT. Also, people who start swearing when someone doesn't agree with them aren't welcome here. So either learn to behave or gtfo.
@Gabe, I was never actually speaking against the physics, so I don't know why you attack me for my driving being "reckless". I agree wholeheartedly with what you say about the suspension simulation, and I'm well aware the tire model is still being worked on. But I digress. Either way, thanks for the response, and I now understand.
The only person who had trouble was me, and that's because I'm not a very good driver . BeamNG is realistic. If I tried to so with my van the same stuff I do with an H15, the same stuff would happen.
Actually the real reason people break the records on real-life tracks in sims is because: 1: They aren't fully realistic. I'm not disputing this. PC sims are nowhere near perfect by the way, they're better but they aren't perfect. 2: There's no fear component--someone in a sim (this counts for PC sims as well) has no fear of death or injury when playing one. As such, people are more aggressive when driving in a simulator than in real life. Even pro racers still don't give 100% all the time, they don't want to die from a wrong turn. I'm an avid PC-simmer, by the way. I own a wheel and used to play games like RFactor or LFS frequently before my computer bricked. My beef with you was less your statements and more your played-out, seen-it-a-million-times "Oh, console kids and their simplistic games!"/"PC MASTER RACE" snobbery. Shit like that is why I rarely hang out on PC-gaming sites, so much elitism.
Oh my god! why this obsession with pc vs console. They are the same. They both have gpu, cpu, ram, a hdd the only diffrence is pc's can be a little more powerful. Please for the love of god don't turn this argument into that. No one cares whatsoever about it.
I quite enjoy driving around the roads in BeamNG, it feels much better than the flat, smooth boring highways on Euro truck simulator 2 Believe it or not even the slightest uneveness in the road can be felt, especially at high speeds. It will be especially better when the devs add the sound of the suspension straining under pressure.
I don't know, I'd rather get mad at you for the cussing and name calling... http://www.beamng.com/threads/2295-...-saving-settings?p=27692&viewfull=1#post27692
Mythbuster didn't mentioned consoles one single time in his first post. He just named the two most widespread car driving "simulators" out there and you implicated this to be a criticism on consoles.
This thread is taking a interesting direction, just bash these crappy console games. Do you guys really think Forza Motorsport's suspension is complete shit? I know it's not on par with pc sims, but it's still the best console sim. Now bash me all you want.
so here's a video, and if you don't like Pendulum then mute it because I didn't realize fraps would record my music too. silly me. Anyway. Watch carefully. 1. It proves the sports car is perfectly driveable, even with a keyboard, so you can stop whining. now once again, sorry about the music. I'd re-record but Fraps causes horriffic lag. 2. pay attention to the way the car reacts to the shifts in weight, the contours on the track and the way the body bobs and rolls around when I brake, accelerate and corner. The banked corners especially, watch how the suspension compensates. now you're trying to argue that it shouldn't do that which is patently absurd. Think about it, this car is heavy. It weighs about 650 kilograms without the suspension, meaning over half a ton of car is sitting on four springs designed to absorb shock and flex. Of course the car is going to react for the same reason those fuzzy dice bounce around, it has inertia and its suspended on something flexible. That's an imperfect road surface (just like real road surfaces) with a physical simulation of the suspension. Here's the trade off, though. If Gabester increased the stiffness of the suspension for the cars like you want then you're going to end up with the same forces and no way to absorb them into the car's structure, just transmit them to another part of the car which can have a lot of bad consequences for handling and most likely, structural parts. You will end up breaking things or finding that the car won't handle and bounces around corners like the van in that Top Gear video.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. The extra force is magically dissipated in the way only a high end rally suspension could do, and those are all stock street cars. To have suspension that can take jumps the way the cars in Forza 4 do requires extremely advanced dampers. Again, you won't find those on street cars, and especially not 60s muscle cars like the Oldsmobile in the beginning of the video. Drive the rally Covet in BeamNG and it'll take jumps about as well, but those are with very advanced two way dampers with a slow and fast bump and a huge amount of travel. If I can try to explain what's happening when things bounce in a way you think they shouldn't... the car is a system of various things that absorb forces. In the case of a vertical drop, there's the tire, the suspension, the bump stops, and finally the flexibility of the frame/chassis. When you drop a car from even six inches in the air, you'll quickly reach the limits of all of those and the system effectively works like a rigid body with nothing to do with the excess energy but bounce back into the air. Same with crashing into a tree. The Bolide is very rigid. It almost seems to bounce like a toy because it can't absorb much force by deforming/flexing. So when you plow into a tree at 80 mph there's only so much force that can go into deforming it and the rest goes into sending it flying back the way it came.
If you've tuned a real quick car for the Nordshleife in Forza 4, you should know how silly the suspension simulation is.
