Modders: We need to talk

Since the issue of paid mods came back up (http://www.beamng.com/threads/whats-the-rules-on-payed-mods.29267/) I'm going to put my input on this.

While paid mods have a good side, this paid mod system's cons will out way the pros. Let's go into my points:

1. tdev said "More reward to create mods > MORE MODS > MORE HIGH QUALITY MODS > more fun, more users > loop" This is true, but this does have a bad side. If a paid mod system is put in, all the very good mods like @AR162B will end up there. This means that the better quality mods will move over, and leave the less quality/worst mods behind. Although more mods would come out, they will be put on the paid side, not on the free side. This reduces the amount of free mods, and overall hurts the mod system.
2. When Payday 2 removed Micro-Transactions, it was a moment of success. Finally for once a company listened to we, THE COMMUNITY, wanted. They got a lot of respect for that bold move. Respect is very important to have. If BeamNG ever put a paid mod system in, everyone who moves the paid side will lose a ton of respect. Why?, because then now they regarded as a "sellout" in the eyes of many people. If you don't have respect then less mods are made since the modders have less of a backing, again hurting the mod system. Not only would the mod system be hurting, the game's sales will also take a big impact. Again, people will lose respect of the devs for allowing this system to be implemented. Just look at companies like Ubisoft, and EA. Their decisions to milk their games with DLC, and Micro-Transactions put they in a horrible spot in the gaming culture, and are the most hated companies. If you want to kill a lot of the community, and sales for the game, adding this paid mod system is something that will do it in a heart beat.
3. There is no stopping pirating. This system could have major flaws, which if I was a good modder (which I'm not..) I wouldn't put my mods into it, knowing that many with pirate them, and a few will buy them.
   
4. I had one person who asked if he could donate money to me. I told him "I don't have Patreon. That's alright, for me making mods is a free thing, as it comes from the heart, not money. Thanks." Modding is something that I believe comes from the heart. When I make these mods it's not so I can get money from it. It's so I can feel good that I made so many people happy, and gain respect. I'm fine with the modders asking for donations, but I'm not fine with modders asking money for a mod I may or may not like.
   
5. That brings me to my last point. I think it would cost more money to make this system, then what will be generated through this paid mod system.

I believe that if this paid system was introduced, I would, like with many others, lose respect for the modders, and the devs, and would lead to a decrease in mods/sales/users for the game.

 

I'm completely fine with paid mods, the majority of modders in this forums are students with little time and getting paid for a job you release to the community is an absolutely fair thing (obviously if it is not overpriced), answering your points

1. The paid system of Skyrim does not work but the donate button could help someone, i sometimes worked from 8 AM to 11 PM on my mod, completely free, that's impossible for a student, that's why i'm going to retire in a month, i don't want someone to pay me for something i made for fun, but i reckon that someone might need an economic boost to keep their modding work and their life togheter
2. In game transaction are different to paid mods, the former are unnecessary things that are usually overpriced, the latter have a small cost and are accessory things outside of the game, the game quality won't be affected, since this game is so unique that sales won't be affected by external mods
3. Piratery is unfortunately unstoppable, nothing could be done on this side
4. I completely agree on that but that's not the same for everyone, i might donate something for a very high quality mod
5. That's maybe true

Said that, a paid system is not something i like, but i can live with it, i won't lose respect of any modder and i won't lose respect in the game, it's a system that might be useful to someone, that's it
Sorry for the poem....

 

I am a student, however I am not sure how big an impact it makes.

1. Personally I think people should have the option as to whether or not they charge. Mods on the Repo already need developer approval to be published, therefore the devs could apply more stringent quality control on paid mods. It has already been stated that dlc is planned for BeamNG, if a modder is creating work of similar quality as the devs then this could be classed as unofficial dlc as opposed to mods.
   
2. A sellout is someone who has sold their integrity to the highest bidder. Charging money for your work is not selling out, unless you wish to call every person who has an income a sellout. There are many other companies that offer paid addons to their games that are well respected. Even EA managed to do it well a while back. Where it becomes a problem is when the base game has been gimped in order to sell extra content, unfair in game currency or dlc that is very bad value for money. If you would like an even more direct example feel free to look at Assetto Corso where the (imo) best mods are behind a pay wall.
   
3. As for piracy it will likely happen. However when you own the distribution platform and game you can do a lot to destroy it. For example you could uniquely Id every mod sold and use that to track who distributes the mods, especially if the mod files are encrypted. Then start banning accounts that distribute mods, would get expensive quick for piracy sites. Or you could adopt an entirely open approach where you get a drm free copy. Personally I would highly support a pay what you like system.
   
4. You can make that argument for everything. Game development should be a passion therefore no money should be at stake, accounting should be a passion therefore you should not expect payment. At the end of the day I am currently unemployed, I am a university student but since I have no past retail experience no one will even give me an interview. If I produced a mod and 20 people paid 50p (post fees) that is potentially 10 meals. Certainly not the cost of my rent, but certainly something I could appreciate. Equally it would make an incredibly positive impact on my cv if I am able to state that I have created and sold my own products (since it demonstrates many skills including customer services and sales skills).
   
5. I'm not entirely sure how much potential for money there is in this system, but if a mod gets featured by a YouTuber (such as Dreagast) that is a lot of exposure and certainly has potential to make some sales.

Finally, I just like many other people are not a charity at the end of the day. There is a real world that exists out there and making free mods does not equate to food and shelter.
While I am very fortunate to be in a position where my parents are willing to pay me an allowance I would love opportunities to reduce how much of a leech I am on them, since they also have their own aspirations, which also lean on them having the money to afford them.

As I said in this comment I would love a system that allows users to pay what they want (including free), since unlike asking for donations in the description it forces people to acknowledge that there is some value to what they are downloading even if they decide not to pay.

(apologies for any errors, written on phone)

 

So I gotta pay 10$ for a completely new, modded car? No way Jose. Ill stick to the free BeamNG cars that they add every few months. And plus, RoR had plenty of hard working made cars and all they got were donations.

 

I don't think paying the modders is out of the question. They spend hours of hard work working on them when they could be playing BeamNG Drive. Now, obviously nothing to crazy of a price...

 

IMO even 5 cents would be enough, that would make 250$ for 5000 downloads, the modder would get 175$ from that.
If someone just invests 2$ he could get 40 mods from that.
What about making the game 2$ more expensive and giving the customer 40 "mod points" for that, which he could use to buy mods from the website? That way people would be "forced" to buy mods and piracy would probably be a smaller problem.

Personally I would go for a donation system though, maybe for a "exclusive" paid week and a free release afterwards.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: while I can't speak for anyone else, were I to go into modding for some reason, I'd keep my mods free no matter how many payment options I got or how much effort I put into things. I'm starting a YouTube channel and I'm planning to keep it 100% ad-free no matter what. I'd rather stay poor than be a rich sellout.

 

I suppose I could have said that better, and it was really more relevant to YouTube anyway, where a few people have managed to make a living by feeding off the Adblockless masses. If I offended anyone, I'm sorry.

Absolutely not wrong at all - though again, I personally would not (though it's a moot point anyway as I can't do anything useful with anything related to games). Again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone by going farther and implying that anyone who charges is a moneygrubber - sometimes I get carried away with anticommercialism.

 

Also, a thing that is not known by anyone. Learning to do a mod is difficult and it takes time. I used lot of time in updating my mod and mine isn't one of the most difficult mod to make, think about projects like the Hovercar, Atomix vehicles, VarietyMod, AR162B mods and others... These mods are absolutely perfect and each modder decided to use some of their important time in modding. Even a little economic contribute might help these wonderful people to work on their mods, everyone has a life, and life is more important than mods, there's who studies at university, who works, who has economic needings. 1 USD is the price of a coffee where i live and in these forums there are mods that value more than AAA games DLCs

 

I'm definitely not under estimating the amount of time people put into their mods. I know from @AR162B @NinetyNine! and @Djplopper that they spend so much time on their mods. And I appreciate it so much. But if I had to pay for their mods, then I might think twice of buying it. I'm not saying that I don't want the modders to get paid, I'm saying how the paid system would affect BeamNG in a bad way. Some of these modders are like freaking game devs, so much more experience than me, and that's why I have a great load of respect for them. If I had money, because I really don't want to donate my parents money, then I would donate, but I can't do that. So if paid mods came out I couldn't pay for it unless people buy the stuff I have up on Ebay. But then you'll say that I could get money by putting my mods on the paid system. First of all, after my BeamNG Broken Mod System, I pretty much ruined my respect, and left me to pick up the pieces. Second of all, I don't believe that my simple mods could get up there. So really, it would put people like me in a bad spot, and other people who have no clue how to mod even in a worst spot. I really don't think paid system will go over well. I really don't want this community to start fighting. I want this game to prosper because you guys are the first company I can believe in. Rockstar, Ubisoft, EA, and many other companies all screwed us over, and I'm sick and tried of it. I don't want to happen with this company either.

 

I respect your thought and i also share it, my mod will never become a paid mod. I also respect you, you did a lot for my mod and i also think that your work on the forums is pretty valuable, a good thought doesn't have to be shared to be good. The forums needs sharing of thoughts and you contribuited a lot to it

 

I don't think paid mods will work. While a lot of the modders here definitely do deserve something, making their mods be only downloadable with cash is not the way to do it.

Not everyone can afford that, even if it is only a few cents, because not many people have credit cards or debit cards. So all that will end up happening is the rise of a ton of site dedicated to distributing paid mods for free, or more popularity towards the Russian mods, which will still (probably) be free. Then of course you have the problem of people using other people's content in their own mods just so they can make a quick buck. Then all the modders will leave because everyone is pirating their stuff and "nobody appreciates them or their content" and blah blah blah, TLDR; its just a bad idea.

What I think would be a better idea, is some type of donate/review system for people when they download mods. Like on the Nexus sites, when you download a mod, a small window will pop up on the screen, either asking for you to rate/review the mod (if you have downloaded it once before), or if it's from a well-known/popular modder, a pop up for donating to them.

 

anyways if there were good paid mods, I would pirate them instead of buying. And anyways, no matter how good the protection will be, the Russians will still get at it...

So the paid mod idea is a big no-no from my perspective.