.Here's a video that shows a bit on ESC, even the most experienced driver can't keep a car in control in an uncontrollable skid/slide.
take note that he was swerving at speed, that's exactly what should happen if you do that, the simplest way to avoid it is to drive sensibly, I still fully support cars being allowed to be made without ESC. And I could argue that that video proves my point that cars these days are completely made not to be driven without ESC which is itself a danger, and I've never driven a car with ESC anywhere near its limit but without it ESC it's VERY clear when you are starting to approach its limits, I assume that effect is lessened with ESC making it harder to tell when you are actually near its limit. Okay maybe it would be a bad idea to sell high power cars without driving aids but that should be up to the manufacturer, do you think for example a base model Ford Ka needs TC and ESC I'd say that for a cheap low end car like that it would be best to have as few points of failure as possible as well as traction control being completely unnecessary(I assume they still use naturally aspirated pushrod I4s?).
ABS is fine. ESC is irritating. TCS is downright retarded. ABS has almost made me run into stuff a few times, but its extremely useful in its element. That's all the vics have. If I wrap it around a tree and die because of lack of assists, so be it. I've dealt with TCS ruining the fun many times. I hate traction control.
Your lack of knowledge on all things automotive is absolutely outstanding. Your belief that somehow you are qualified to make such factually incorrect statements on such a frequent manner boggles the mind. Having driven a ford ka with its 1.3l pushrod i4, it can spin it's tyres in the dry. It can do it by accident in wet. But no, no pushrod ka's since 2002 in developed markets. And if I recall, that was the last of the pushrod i4s to be sold in a developed market. There may be more but they'll be rare. Though perhaps you might realise something. Traction control, ABS and ESC, don't add 3 points of failure. They're also designed in such a way to be failsafe. Namely traction control failure simply leads to no traction control. Esc failure leads to no ESC. Abs failure leads to no ABS. There are laws requiring an all manner of testing and software quality auditing before a cars abs/esc/tcs can hit the road for test drive let alone manufacture. You seem to shout the cry of old v8 luxobarge. Shame they're more dangerous. Shame they're less reliable. Both things you complain about on modern cars yet modern cars do better
It has failsafes but that doesn't mean that you wouldn't have to get them fixed if your area has inspections, and to replace those you'd probably end up having to spend thousands all because of one little "feature" that was forced on you, and if not then you still wouldn't be used to driving the car without the assist. I know that if they fail they default to just being normal but I still doubtful that low end cars should have it even if it "can spin its tyres" as long as its not too severe, and if it is then that means the kind of engine it has doesn't belong in a low end econobox in the first place.
The fact that you totally misunderstood what my post meant at all. It's not to help your argument or prove whatever your point was, and that test was done at Highway speeds, on a Highway. If you think "driving sensibly" on a highway just to avoid having to swerve and avoid such a crash at "high speeds", then you're that dumbass that drives at 40mph while everyone else including their uncle passes you up.
Honestly I would be the kind of person to drive far below the speed limit, however because of the laws where I live we have minimum speed limits as well as maximum speed limits so thats another complaint I have.
I don't think I've ever seen such a spineless human being. Driving below the speed limit is far more dangerous than speeding. Staying with the flow of traffic is the safest.
What even? I'm fairly sure i understand what you are saying in this sentence and if it means what i think it means you really are a special cookie. You are basically saying that the owner wouldn't be able to drive the car becuase they wouldn't have the assist to kick in and help them. It's not fu***** formula one where everyone is driving on the limit and relying on the assists to stop them from killing themselves. The assists are there for extreme circumstances when the driver (which in 90+% of the population has no car control or defensive driving skills) loses control/encounters a situation they do no know how to deal with such as, when there is a hazard like when someone stops in front of you or you need to stop quickly the ABS will kick in to improve your braking distance so you either hit the car infront at a lower speed or you actually stop in time rather than locking it up and sliding straight into them. The assists are not meant to help you drive fast and kick in to save you which is what you are implying with what you are saying. They are there to prevent accidents just like everybody on the last page of this thread has said. If i knew where you lived i would happily provide you with a lifetime supply of condoms. Please don't reproduce. Assists do not make up for lack of driver skill to help you go fast or take advantage of them to try and go faster. They are to prevent accidents in extreme circumstances when the driver either does not know how to deal with the situation of they do not have sufficient time to react to the situation.
Thank christ you don't drive. People like you are the people I cut in front of as close as possible when overtaking. One day I'll accidentally clip their front end and hopefully kill us both. Incompetent drivers are the sole cause of traffic incidents and gridlock. ITT: people with basically no automotive+driving knowledge making wild assumptions and hoping they're right. I want to write paragraphs to prove people wrong like I used to, but I have much better things to do. This forum hasn't changed for the last two years lmao.
But there's the question of how long would most people go without noticing that there's a problem with one of the systems? If you expect to have ABS then you would probably be much less concerned with being careful on the brakes, the few times I drove I almost always went full on the brakes instantly, if I wasn't using a car with ABS I would have had to be more gentle with them, the way I see it driving assists encourage people to drive their cars to the limit, and most people at some time or another will end up trying to push their car to its limits, with too many driving assists I get the feeling it would cause a false sense of security. that said I'm not so much against the systems as a whole, I'm against them being mandatory. Don't drive... yet, I've kinda been wanting to get a few other things sorted with my life before bothering getting my license or learners permit or whatever. And I wouldn't call myself an incompetent driver, more so a paranoid one, but funnily enough I'm actually more comfortable on dirt and roads where I cant see what's ahead than ones with plenty of visibility, not like it matters much either way, I've almost driven off the road and into a brick wall both of which were clearly visible in front of me but I just didnt notice them, only reason I even saw them was I stopped so I could hear my dad yelling at me about them(yes two separate occasions, but same thing pretty much)... honestly I think its the governments fault for not having some kind of distinctive coloring or reflective panneling at the ends and sides of roads so people can actually notice them. edit: now that I think about it roads may have something like that, honestly not sure, wasnt paying to much attention to little details ever.
Okay, let us know how safe you feel after a semi truck rear ends you doing the speed limit because you were going 5mph :/
You actively endanger other road users. Driving 30%below limit is 50%more dangerous than 30%over the limit
And where exactly are those statistics from? I'd assume that the extra time you'd get to notice things would more than offset the danger of being rear ended by other people who aren't paying attention, or does it come more from people trying to overtake you?
Really? That makes me feel a lot better about constantly doing 90 mph on the highway. About the TCS/ECS argument, I live without them on both of my vehicles, I even live without ABS on my Mustang. Honestly, there have been times I've been thankful for not having ABS, and the several deer I've almost hit are thankful too. I'm still a developing driver. I can hold a slide in my truck just fine, probably because the steering is so light. But I'll say that I could use some form of at least stability control in my Mustang. I've almost killed myself in that car 3 too many times. Oh well, I guess it teaches me how weight distributes and shifts in a slide. I bet I'll be able to control the next one.
That's the problem. The point of these aids are to help the driver in a situation that they did not expect and are unable to handle. Obviously I hope you do control the next one but there is the chance that ESC would prevent the crash too. That's why I don't understand the mentality of wishing it didn't exist.
TCS/ECS is made because most rich and normal people would veer into a ditch because they can't control their cars with lot's of power, and it's also pointless for a shitebox to have TCS because it is slow as hell.
In certain situations where a controlled slide with a certain ammount of slip is needed, TCS and ESC can actually cause you to crash (traction control keeps you from giving power to the wheels to control the slide, and TCS effectively prevents you from countersteering). It must be noted though these situations are very rare, and TCS/ESC are very useful for idiot-proofing cars. Although if the USA had better driver education they probably wouldn't need so many nanny regulations.
Yeah, it's the government's fault, not yours because you are an incompetent driver. Yes, most roads do have a lot of warning, and the signs are usually pretty obvious so you may want to get your eyes checked. In my truck ABS can be disabled simply by pulling a fuse, is that not the case for modern cars?
