'Developer Section' Response Thread

Sure they are, but for average driver they are annoyance, people seek that super easy comfy stuff in general and American car makers have managed to get that always to greater level. So even sporty American cars have automatic boxes and with automatic transmission + big torque, stopping is not as much of issue. It takes a long time for cars to get going in Europe when green lights lits, searching for first gear after car right at front moves, those with automatic get going much quicker.

So I guess that is part of the reason why roundabouts are popular in Europe, with different kind of vehicles and petrol prices, perhaps there would be less use for roundabouts.

Also I don't think that in Europe you can turn right from red light like in US, which makes European traffic lights even more nightmare to drive.

In US cars were even marketed for stoplight race use, it was a selling point.

Was it difference in roads that made cars different or difference in cars that affected roads might of course be something where no clear line can be drawn, but for daily use American made cars were quite nice compared to those euro cars with tiny motors. Of course things have changed since 80's-90's so that today it is not so big difference, but I'm not big fan of new stuff anyway, usually my mind blocks existence of any vehicles made at 90's or more recent, it is kind of automatic filtering

 

Well, it exist but not in every country. You can turn right if there is a little green arrow. Tbh I never thought European traffic lights are nightmare for someone.

Roundabouts are also pretty neat if you want traffic keep moving. Not always, but most of the time it working better than lights.

 

Very informative post following (I'm not picking on fufsgfen, I'm just discussing things )

Well except that Europe is home to the most exclusive luxurious (Rolls Royce?) and fastest (Ferrari, Lamborghini, Pagani?) cars available. They certainly are exclusive things, but Europeans will generally prefer higher build quality and better looks over room and practicality (some more practicality is welcome in the latest years, even from luxury brands).
What happened in Europe to contrast the high prices and low performance per cubic inch of petrol engines was the rise of the Silver Surfer turbodiesel. Economic, long lasting, torquey. No roar, but that's for the SLR McLaren and other strange creatures, not for the average Golf. A lot of effort is also put in making lighter cars. One of the technologies transferred by FIAT to Chrysler as part of the payment was everything that allowed for lighter seats, without compromising comfort. We also don't like CVTs and automatics too much because of how slack they are with respect to what the engine is doing relative to the wheels. Torque converter locking (like Aston Martin) and electronic DCTs/robotic shifters are the answers. Most people also prefer a manual because they believe they have more control of their vehicles, and because we are all taught on manual cars for our driving licences. It's the Old Continent, we like the old way I presume.

Roundabouts are great to keep the traffic flowing and they don't require energy or management when down for maintenance. Since you also give way from the driver side, you also can better see what is coming to you. Incoming traffic also all comes from one direction and is more sparse, so you can more precisely evaluate when it's time to go. My citation of conservation of momentum was mostly a joke: you have to almost stop oftentimes. Big rig drivers don't like to get around obstacles and a lot of rubber gets scrubbed going in circles.

You can turn left, right and straight unless explicitly prohibited.

You can't market a car for that in Italy, racing on public roads is strictly prohibited in any form and if an officer catches you fees are heavy. If you are deemed to pose great danger to oothers, you can end up in jail too. The big uncertainty is if there will ever be an officer, they are not very often seen. And we're gonna make him an offer he can't refuse anyway.
EDIT

What is WOT (baby dont' hurt me)?
Or WOT as World of Tanks?
I know pedal to the metal, stomping on the gas and going postal (well going postal is maybe a bit too much for a red light) but WOT, I don't know. Please teach me how to WOT, it sounds fun

EDIT again: my guess is Wide Open Throttle, but that, I know already.

 

U WOT M8?

I sorry... I couldn't... I better go.

About roundabout I forget one thing. You can't pass it driving above 80 km/h (in legal way of course) so it is safer than regular crossroads.

 

World Of Throttle, which bring you world of fun (WOF)

I'm sure there are better drivers in some places in Europe, but for some places, when it takes about 1 second from everyone to get going after car at front of each starts moving, it is quite frustrating, 5th car starts moving 5 seconds from light to turn green, if you are lucky and there are bit more driving oriented persons, it might be 3 seconds.

With automatics cars start moving at release of the brake, in addition when drivers follow the lights and not bumper of car at front, it makes lights much better experience. I guess there is something to do with limited focusing abilities of human, focusing rpm, clutch gear etc. makes things bit slower, than focusing on light and just go.

I have had manual and automatic cars and with automatic cars it was really easy to get going, but even with manual I tend to be at middle of intersection before car behind me started moving and I did not use more than 50% throttle, with automatic because no shifting time it did go with less throttle to similar performance, that is point many don't realize with automatics, with part throttle and relaxed driving it keeps accelerating where slow gear change with manual (what I have observed gear changing takes anything from 0.5 to 1 second from those non driving oriented persons) slows acceleration time.
Add average time to get going (really lot seems to have car at neutral at lights with manual) and difference becomes surprisingly big, even cars might be able to perform near the same.

I guess it would be possible to test somewhat in BeamNG, taking manual and automatic, accelerating with typical non rushed manner that people do.
There just is none of jerk when releasing clutch fast, normally people take extra time with clutch when changing gears as normal people don't like g-forces of any kind, which I find weird, but so many have told they don't like turns on road, same with clutch and accelerator use.
It is hard to understand as a person who has always been interested from cars and driving, but after I was not allowed to drive anymore because of health reasons, I have spend quite bit on passenger seats which has revealed why cars behave like they do on roads, many things has not made sense before, but I have found it is lack of attention and interest to driving that seems to be main reason for those odd things, like slow get going from lights.


Yeah, green arrow light is some places, but not quite same as US turn on red as some lights were too stupid and only car standing there on red lights felt kinda stupid.

I do like manual transmission cars for fun, just for average driver (who really is not interested for driving and does it only as have to), I would see automatic transmission as better option and yes, they do make best cars in the world in US, Europe and Japan, bit different ones each place, modern DCT things are nice hybrid of automatic and manual, but that is modern times, I'm quite ignorant of modern times, anything within 5-10 years is pretty much unknown to me, too complicated times for me to understand, I guess

I have seen quite few times results of drivers attempting to take roundabout at 80km/h, there is lot of mess at center area, then a wreck at side of the road, I'm amazed how some are still attempting even it should be quite clearly impossible thing to do, but then again some people do make bonfires inside an apartment if they feel cold, so I guess some people like to try everything in person, I guess that is why we have entertainment like fail army

 

Especially when you drive in truck/pickup/van/cargo (or whatever it is called) using diesel engine so manufacturer replaced tachometer to a big clock.

 

I drove manual for about two years in three different cars before I had one with a tach. Even when you're learning, you don't really need one. I agree with people saying that the difference between auto and manual is negligible with just a little practise. There's no delay in acceleration or shifting and it can be just as smooth.

 

What American people don't seem to understand is that in Europe, autos are extremely rare. I've never seen an autos gearbox of my life personally. We pass our car driving test on manual. Most people don't even know how an auto work, me included. I'm pretty sure dual clutch is more courant. Other than high end SUVs no cars come with autos gearbox.

 

I think you are missing one crucial aspect here, majority don't like driving, they don't really focus on driving and any driving activity is a burden to really lot of them, which makes them perform quite poorly, there is really lot of drivers who don't have driving so good level as for example how you have, they really struggle with clutch use, which is really weird, but so is how for some steady speed is something between 60-120km/h depending if someone is overtaking or if there is something at side of the road etc. I guess some would call those bad drivers, but there is really lot of them.

I have spent quite while driving on several places, manual, automatic, cars, lorries and such, that is more than 30 years of experience, average is well over 50 000km a year and most of that with cars, maybe something like 60% manual and rest with automatic and after driving automatic for a while, I could not find any reason for manual on daily ride, one really has to experience that to really appreciate it.

Yeah, it starts to be better these days I recon, when there are more of these automatics of all kind, it was easy to spot those on traffic lights though as when first car on line was automatic and I was second one, there was no need to wait while green light was lit.

Bigger cities of course were bit different, generally people driving in those were bit more alert, but often my driving was where there was less than 10 cars waiting on lights and getting going was so slow, so visiting US was really cool experience as from traffic lights cars actually started going when light changed even on smaller places.

 

https://www.beamng.com/threads/italy-progress.24505/page-3#post-560084 It's because Torque3D loves new textures

Spoiler

jk

 

We need less pictures of Italy and more pictures of the Hopper.

 

No

 

I do not understand, why you would want less one thing and more other thing, certainly more of everything wins

 

I don't think so. Even in my crappy car that's not running properly I pull away from all the automatics. Partly because the people driving them are slow, and also partly because people seem to like to sit at green lights. Driving my dads car I still pull away from them, but he's also got a v6.
Automatic vs. manual off the line could go either way, but when the guy behind the wheel is just sitting at the light it doesn't make him start faster, just irritates me quicker.
--- Post updated ---
Oh, also, guess this is different from you Europeans, but I never touched a manual car until I bought my own a few years after getting my license. It was in another city and I had my brother drive it back. My dad tried to teach me how to drive it, stalled like 3 times, then the battery died. That was my "learning experience" with driving manual. The next day I had to drive to work, and I just had to figure it out.

On the other hand, I did buy a wheel and pedal setup, so I was already fairly used to the motions, aside from dumping the clutch.

 

There's enough pictures of Italy, but we need more of WCUSA.

 

Yea i'm waiting on some new pics/progress of WCUSA.. from the looks of it.. it appears like its way ahead of being finished compared to Italy. progress wise im "guessing" its 80-90% done it seems likely the next map for the next update with most guaranteed the hopper. but ill take WCUSA over the hopper any day!.. I live in New York so something like WCUSA is what im waiting for.

 

The Hopper would pair great with WCUSA coming out.

Also a Tesla-like official car would be awesome someday.