You might know the 4Chan $5k buying guide. Well, I'd like to make the European edition, with an €4k budget in most categories. Here are the planned categories: Spoiler: Categories A. Small cars (1st row - city cars, 2nd row - diesel superminis, 3rd row - petrol superminis.) B. Compacts (1st row - diesel, 2nd row - petrol, 3rd row - premium.) C. Midsize (1st row - diesel, 2nd row - petrol, 3rd row - premium). D. Large (1st row - petrol executive,, 2nd row - diesel executive, 3rd row - upper class.) E. Small minivan. (1st row - small, 2nd row - diesel compact, 3rd row - petrol compact.). F. Large minivan. (1st row - diesel midsize, 2nd row - petrol midsize, 3rd row - really large). G. Small SUV/crossover. (1st row - subcompact, 2nd row - compact, 3rd row - offroad-ready). H. Large SUV/crossover. (1st row - midsize, 2nd row - large, 3rd row - offroad). I. €1000. (1st row - small, 2nd row - compact and midsize, 3rd row - utility. J. Sporty (1st row - small, 2nd row - compact, 3rd row - large). K. Convertible (1st row - small, 2nd row - compact, 3rd row - midsize and bigger). L. Classic (1st row - basic, 2nd row - sporty, 3rd row - luxury). M. Van (1st row - small, 2nd row - midsize, 3rd row - large.) N. For tuning (give me ideas about subcategories). O. For competition (1st row - track, 2nd row - rally, 3rd row - drift). I already have ideas for lists in 10 subcategories: Spoiler: Midsize Petrol: Main choice - Honda Accord (2003-2006, up to 250 kkm). Pros: very reliable, good handling, lots of well-kept, well-equipped examples. Cons: expensive parts, no lower-end engines, below average safety. Issues: xenon light misalignment, power tailgate failure, rubber bushing wear. Mazda 6 (2002-2007, up to 250 kkm). Pros: good handling, good reliability, lots of well-equipped examples. Cons: propensity for rust, lots of cut-and-shuts, expensive parts. Issues: rust, steering misalignment, tailgate strut wear. Citroen C5 (2001-2007, up to 250 kkm). Pros: comfortable ride, cheap parts, low fuel consumption, good safety. Cons: unreliable suspension and electronics, many mismaintained examples. Issues: suspension leaks, dodgy electrics. Diesel: Main choice: Honda Accord (2003-2006, up to 300 kkm). Pros: great reliability, good handling, lots of well-kept, well-equipped examples. Cons: expensive parts, below average safety. Issues: xenon light misalignment, power tailgate failure, rubber bushing wear. Opel Vectra (2002-2007, up to 300 kkm). Pros: spacious interior and trunk, reliable 1.9 and 2.2 engines, most parts are cheap. Cons: some parts are expensive, suspension and electronics are unreliable, lots of worn examples. Issues: suspension misalignment, electronic failures, exhaust rust, oil leaks. VW Passat (1996-2008, up to 300 kkm). Pros: reliable and tunable 1.9 TDI and 1.8T, good handling and comfort, spacious estate version, cheap parts, AWD version. Cons: lots of worn and cut-and-shut examples, unreliable 2.0 and 2.5 TDI, complicated suspension. Issues: suspension breakdowns, flywheel breakdowns, cambelt wear, halfshaft wear, 2.0 TDI head cracks, 2.5 TDI timing and injection pump failures. Premium: Main choice - BMW 3-Series (1998-2005, up to 250 kkm). Pros: great handling, lots of engine choices, reliable petrol engines, fuel-efficient diesels, can be found with nice equipment and 4x4. Cons: lots of abused and cut-and-shut examples, tight interior and trunk, bad automatics. Issues: suspension wear, steering misalignement, automatic breakdowns, A/C failures. Audi A4 (2000-2005, up to 275 kkm). Pros: lots of engine choices, reliable and tunable 1.9 TDI and 1.8T, available 4x4, cheap parts. Cons: lots of worn and cut-and-shut examples, unreliable 2.0 and 2.5 TDI, unreliable automatics, small estate trunk. Issues: automatic failures, alternator failures, 2.0 TDI head cracks, 2.5 TDI timing and injection pump failures. Lexus IS (1999-2002, up to 300 kkm). Pros: very reliable engines, good rustproofing, high comfort, 3.0 can be tuned up to four-figure HP. Cons: no wagon, no diesel and 4x4, not a lot of choice, 3.0 is automatic only, expensive parts, handling not on par with the Germans. Issues: 2.0 oil leaks, rubber bushing wear. Spoiler: Large Petrol: Main choice - BMW 5-Series (1995-2002, up to 250 kkm). Pros: good handling, comfortable ride, more reliable automatic than competitors, good material quality. Cons: complicated suspension, small trunk, many mismaintained examples. Issues: front suspension wear, loss of steering alignment. Audi A6 (1994-2002, up to 250 kkm). Pros: good rustproofing, good equipment, quite cheap parts, the 1.8 T is cheap to modify. Cons: unreliable Multitronic automatic gearbox, harsh ride, lots of mismaintained examples. Issues: front suspension wear, expensive gearbox failures, oil leaks in older cars. Volvo S80/V70 (1998-2002, up to 250 kkm). Pros: large trunk and interior, good reliability, good safety, 7-seaters available. Cons: unreliable 2.9 engine and automatics, many worn examples, not so good handling. Issues: automatic transmission failures, 2.9 turbo failures, cambelt wear, ECU failures. Diesel: Main choice: Volvo S80/V70. (1998-2004, up to 300 kkm). Pros: large trunk and interior, good reliability, good safety, 7-seater available. Cons: unreliable automatics, many worn examples, not so good handling. Issues: automatic transmission failures, cambelt wear, injector failures, ECU problems. BMW 5-Series (1995-2003, up to 250 kkm). Pros: good handling, comfortable ride, more reliable automatic than competitors, good material quality. Cons: complicated suspension, unreliable 525tds, small trunk, many mismaintained examples. Issues: front suspension wear, loss of steering alignment. Issues: front suspension wear, loss of steering alignment, turbocharger and common rail failure in 525tds. Audi A6 (1994-2000, up to 350 kkm). Pros: good rustproofing, good equipment, quite cheap parts, the 1.9 TDI is reliable and cheap to modify. Cons: unreliable Multitronic automatic gearbox and 2.5 TDI engine, harsh ride, lots of mismaintained examples. Issues: front suspension wear, expensive Multitronic failures, oil leaks in older cars, timing and injection pump failures in 2.5 TDI. Upper class: Main choice: BMW 7-Series (1994-2000, up to 250 kkm). Pros: good handling, quite reliable engines (and a wide selection), available manual gearbox, prices may soon rise. Cons: costly-to-maintain V12 engines, harsh ride, expensive parts. Issues: suspension wear, corroding electrics. Lexus LS400 (1989-1994, up to 400 kkm). Pros: comfortable ride, quiet and reliable engine, good equipment, lots of well-maintained examples. Cons: only one available engine, little choice at the price outside the UK and "new EU", not so good handling. Issues: display failures, A/C failures, battery connector wear. Audi A8 (1994-2000, up to 250 kkm). Pros: no corrosion, cheap parts, lots of engine choices, quite reliable V6 engine. Cons: unreliable diesels, lots of mismaintained examples, FWD ones are very understeer-prone, the body is expensive to repair after collisions. Issues: suspension wear, electrical failures, timing and injection pump failures in diesels. €1k small cars: Main choice: VW Polo (1994-2001, up to 200 kkm). Pros: large trunk in sedan and wagon, reliable 1.9 TDI and 1.4 8v engines, cheap parts, good safety for the age. Cons: spartan interior, not-so-great ride, unreliable 1.4 TDI engine, many badly-equipped examples on the market. Issues: body and electrics' rust, oil leaks, halfshaft wear, neglect by previous owners. Opel Corsa (1993-2002, up to 200 kkm). Pros: cheap service, good body rustproofing and safety in post-2000 models, nice interior, diesel available. Cons: unreliable 1.0 engine, lots of examples with no service history and/or bad equipment. Issues: body rust (90s models), exhaust rust, front suspension wear, lambda sensor failures, neglect by previous owners. Public transport. At this sort of budget and such low expectations, if you live in a major city, you may reconsider the need to own a car. €1k compact and midsize cars: Toyota Corolla (1992-1999, up to 200 kkm). Pros: good reliability, lots of well-maintained examples, low fuel consumption. Cons: no good diesel, dull handling, more expensive parts than with competitors. Issues: rust, neglect by previous owners. VW Golf/Jetta (1991-1998, up to 200 kkm). Pros: cheap parts, wide range of reliable engines, simple construction, large choice of cars, large trunk. Cons: many worn examples, lots of cut-and-shuts, corrosion-prone. Issues: rust, interior wear, neglect by previous owners. Audi 80/A4 (1986-1997, up to 250 kkm). Pros: good rustproofing, reliable engines, good handling, 4WD available, cheap parts. Cons: many worn and cut-and-shut examples, A4 has a complicated suspension setup, tight interior. Issues: electrical glitches, A4 suspension misalignment, neglect by previous owners. Spoiler: Classic Luxury: Main choice - Mercedes W123 (1976-1983). Pros: reliable drivetrain, comfortable ride, decent handling for such a car. Cons: many badly-equipped models on the market, expensive parts. Issues: rust, leaky seals, odometer failures, neglect by previous owners. Peugeot 404/504 (1960-1981). Pros: comfortable ride, good reliability, easy to repair. Cons: mediocre performance, not as well equipped as the other options. Issues: rust, electrics, brake lines (1965-1968), neglect by previous owners. Citroen CX (1974-1991). Pros: very comfortable, spacious estate version with possible 7 seats, good visibility, lovable quirks. Cons: unlovable quirks, high unreliability, lots of rare parts. Issues: suspension leaks if mismaintained/overused, dodgy electrics, overheating, neglect by previous owners. Sporty: Main choice - Porsche 924/944 (1976-1991). Pros: good handling, large trunk, 924 shares a lot of VW parts. Cons: expensive parts, will require some TLC at this price. Issues: rust, worn interior materials, engine mount collapse (924), power steering failure (944), neglect by previous owners. Honda Prelude (1982-1987). Pros: reliable drivetrain, great handling, great build quality, lightweight body. Cons: cars and parts may be hard to find, fuel-hungry engines, lack of safety. Issues: body and electrics' corrosion, unreliable A/C, neglect by previous owners. Lancia Beta. (1972-1981) Pros: good handling, daily-driver comfort, lightweight body. Cons: hard to find in Northern Europe, lack of some replacement parts. Issues: rust, rust and more rust, unreliable automatic gearbox, interior and suspension wear, neglect by previous owners. Basic: Main choice - VW Beetle (1971-1978). Pros: parts and cars are easy to find, simple mechanics, good handling, large aftermarket. Cons: low performance, spartan interior, low engine durability. Issues: rust, engine seizure, piston rust, neglect by previous owners. Volvo PV544 (1958-1965). Pros: good rustproofing, decent performance for the age, good reliability, good safety. Cons: may be hard to find behind the former Iron Curtain, isn't as simple as the Beetle, somewhat small interior, numb steering. Issues: slight rust, head gasket wear, neglect by previous owners. 30s, 50s and 60s family cars. Pros: simple construction, model-specific pros. Cons: lack of power, hard to find parts, model-specific cons. Issues: rust, neglect by previous owners, model-specific issues. So, do you have any ideas for changes, or for cars in other categories?
The "Tin Can" category (can all be had for under 1000 euros, are all lightweight and horribly unsafe): -Citroen AX (1986-1998) Pros: Very cheap, lightweight, with the lightest model weighing in at 640kg, practical and fuel efficient (especially with the 1.5 diesel engine), plenty of fun to drive, and there's a relatively cheap hot hatch version (the GTi) with 100hp which is plenty for how little it weighs. Cons: Pre 1991 models are poorly insulated,1.4 diesels are unreliable, the handling is dangerous due to soft suspension and thin tires, even on the GTi version. Electrical systems are also very unreliable. -1st generation Renault Clio (1990-1998) Pros: Stylish, reliable, practical, very fuel efficient, and great handling. Some even come with an airbag. Cons: Painfully slow, uncomfortable ride, not much interior room especially in the back. -1st generation Opel Corsa/Vauxhall Nova (1983-1993) Pros: Very good design, light weight, fun handling, very fuel efficient, reliable and easy to drive. It's practical as there are 2 and 4 door hatchbacks, and 2 and 4 door sedans. Cons: usually slow with lower displacement engines (1.0 - 1.2L), most people will think you're a boyracer. -Toyota Starlet EP70/EP71 (1984-1989) Pros: Extremely reliable and efficient, durable and practical too, with a decent interior and even a hot hatch version (EP71). Cons: Quite slow, and exterior styling isn't that good. Also, some models only came with 4 speed gearboxes.
€1000 can get you a lot more. If I had such a budget, I'd be shopping for a Volvo 940/850 or for an Audi 80 1.9 TDI. Most of these cars have even disappeared outside of Southern and Eastern Europe.
True, but the volvos and audis are comfortable and moderately safe, that's just too good for my tin can category I guess there aren't many of these old citroens etc. outside of southern europe because anywhere else they'll rust out pretty quick. I live in portugal so these cars can go forever with proper maintenance as the weather is hot and usually dry Also we like them because they are extremely cheap to run and easy to modify/have fun with which is essencial for a mostly economically crippled population
Talking about €1k small cars: Main choice: Opel Corsa (1993-2002, up to 200 kkm). Pros: cheap service, good body rustproofing and safety in post-2000 models, nice interior, diesel available. Cons: unreliable 1.0 engine, lots of examples with no service history and/or bad equipment. Issues: body rust (90s models), exhaust rust, front suspension wear, lambda sensor failures. VW Polo (1994-2001, up to 200 kkm). Pros: large trunk in sedan and wagon, reliable 1.9 TDI and 1.4 8v engines, cheap parts, good safety for the age. Cons: spartan interior, not-so-great ride, unreliable 1.4 TDI engine, many badly-equipped examples on the market. Issues: body and electrics' rust, oil leaks, halfshaft wear. Public transport. At this sort of budget and such low expectations, if you live in a major city, you may reconsider the need to own a car.
Large: 1. (Petrol) Opel Omega B2 Pros: comfortable, cheap to buy and maintain, much car for little money, fast, getting rare so at some point you might end up with a unique car Cons: less luxurious, rust problems, getting hard to find (especially estate) 2. (Diesel) BMW E39 (diesels are much more common) Pros: fast, sporty, estate is roomy, parts are easy to find Cons: uncomfortable on rough roads, tends to be unreliable, beware poorly maintained cars and cut-and-shut jobs 3. (Upper Class) Mercedes W140 Pros: large selection of engines, much car for little money, comfortable, looks serious and intimidating Cons: expensive to maintain, beware poorly maintained cars and cut-and-shut jobs
My ideas are rather: Petrol: Main choice - BMW 5-Series (1995-2002, up to 230 kkm). Pros: good handling, comfortable ride, more reliable automatic than competitors, good material quality. Cons: complicated suspension, small trunk, many mismaintained examples. Issues: front suspension wear, loss of steering alignment. Audi A6 (1994-2002, up to 230 kkm). Pros: good rustproofing, good equipment, quite cheap parts, the 1.8 T is cheap to modify. Cons: unreliable Multitronic automatic gearbox, harsh ride, lots of mismaintained examples. Issues: front suspension wear, expensive gearbox failures, oil leaks in older cars. Volvo S80/V70 (1998-2002, up to 250 kkm). Pros: large trunk and interior, good reliability, good safety. Cons: unreliable 2.9 engine and automatics, many worn examples, not so good handling. Issues: automatic transmission failures, 2.9 turbo failures, cambelt wear. Diesel: Main choice: Volvo S80/V70. (1998-2004, up to 250 kkm). Pros: large trunk and interior, good reliability, good safety. Cons: unreliable automatics, many worn examples, not so good handling. Issues: automatic transmission failures, cambelt wear, injector failures. BMW 5-Series (1995-2003, up to 250 kkm). Pros: good handling, comfortable ride, more reliable automatic than competitors, good material quality. Cons: complicated suspension, unreliable 525tds, small trunk, many mismaintained examples. Issues: front suspension wear, loss of steering alignment. Issues: front suspension wear, loss of steering alignment, turbocharger and common rail failure in 525tds. Audi A6 (1994-2000, up to 250 kkm). Pros: good rustproofing, good equipment, quite cheap parts, the 1.9 TDI is reliable and cheap to modify. Cons: unreliable Multitronic automatic gearbox and 2.5 TDI engine, harsh ride, lots of mismaintained examples. Issues: front suspension wear, expensive Multitronic failures, oil leaks in older cars, timing and injection pump failures in 2.5 TDI. Upper class: Main choice: BMW 7-Series (1994-2000, up to 230 kkm). Pros: good handling, quite reliable engines (and a wide selection), available manual gearbox, prices may soon rise. Cons: costly-to-maintain V12 engines, harsh ride, expensive parts. Issues: suspension wear, corroding electrics. Lexus LS400 (1989-1994, up to 400 kkm). Pros: comfortable ride, quiet and reliable engine, good equipment, lots of well-maintained examples. Cons: only one available engine, not a lot of choice at the price, not so good handling. Issues: display failures. Audi A8 (1994-2000, up to 230 kkm). Pros: no corrosion, cheap parts, lots of engine choices, quite reliable V6 engine. Cons: unreliable diesels, lots of mismaintained examples, FWD ones are very understeer-prone, the body is expensive to repair after collisions. Issues: suspension wear, electrical failures, timing and injection pump failures in diesels. W140s worth buying are outside of the price range.
I thought about choosing an A6 for row 1, but I did a quick search and it turned out that more than 75% of all A6s on my home country's used car market are diesels, all Omegas are petrols so it is more suitable for a 'petrol car' spot. Also, there were multiple nice w140s below 4000€, I even found some w220s, but they were either damaged or beat-up former taxi cabs. I guess the price range of mint w140s depends on a country.
First, the €4k W140 usually have a host of hidden problems. Second, even though there is a lot of petrol Omegas, they have too much of a rust problem. Third, you might wanna take a look at the updated version. --- Post updated --- Also, what if I make the "tin can" category into €250 cars? (Categories: city, small, compact/larger)
Changed a few things in the descriptions, changed the 924/944 and Prelude, and Polo and Corsa's places, added a new category: Basic classics: Main choice - VW Beetle (1971-1978). Pros: parts and cars are easy to find, simple mechanics, good handling, large aftermarket. Cons: low performance, spartan interior, low engine durability. Issues: rust, engine seizure, piston rust, neglect by previous owners. Volvo PV544 (1958-1965). Pros: good rustproofing, decent performance for the age, good reliability, good safety. Cons: may be hard to find behind the former Iron Curtain, isn't as simple as the Beetle, somewhat small interior, numb steering. Issues: slight rust, head gasket wear, neglect by previous owners. 30s, 50s and 60s family cars. Pros: simple construction, model-specific pros. Cons: lack of power, hard to find parts, model-specific cons. Issues: rust, neglect by previous owners, model-specific issues.
Ok, lets try my luck at midsize class 1. VW Passat B5 Pros: safe, cheap, reliable, parts are cheap and easy to find, large selection of engines with various performance and fuel consumption, AWD is available and common Cons: hard to find a car with low mileage that hasn't been rolled down and known history, may rust 2. Toyota Avensis T250 Pros: modern styling, very reliable, safe (first car sold in Europe to have a knee airbag!), rusty cars are very rare Cons: lack of powerful engines, might be unappealing for some people Alternative: Ford Mondeo Mk3 Pros: modern styling, cheap to maintain, low mileage is common (at least where I live) Cons: no AWD, not the most reliable vehicle, may rust 3. Premium: Audi A4 B5 Pros: premium brand, large selection of engines with various performance and fuel consumption, AWD is available Cons: may rust, more expensive to maintain, beware poorly maintained cars and cars with mileage rolled down, as well as cut-and-shut jobs
I have my own ideas of that, but they'll come later. --- Post updated --- As promised, here are the midsize picks: Petrol: Main choice - Honda Accord (2003-2006, up to 250 kkm). Pros: very reliable, good handling, lots of well-kept, well-equipped examples. Cons: expensive parts, no lower-end engines, below average safety. Issues: xenon light misalignment, power tailgate failure, rubber bushing wear. Mazda 6 (2002-2007, up to 250 kkm). Pros: good handling, good reliability, lots of well-equipped examples. Cons: propensity for rust, lots of cut-and-shuts, expensive parts. Issues: rust, steering misalignment, tailgate strut wear. Citroen C5 (2001-2007, up to 250 kkm). Pros: comfortable ride, cheap parts, low fuel consumption, good safety. Cons: unreliable suspension and electronics, many mismaintained examples. Issues: suspension leaks, dodgy electrics. Diesel: Main choice: Honda Accord (2003-2006, up to 300 kkm). Pros: great reliability, good handling, lots of well-kept, well-equipped examples. Cons: expensive parts, below average safety. Issues: xenon light misalignment, power tailgate failure, rubber bushing wear. Opel Vectra (2002-2007, up to 300 kkm). Pros: spacious interior and trunk, reliable 1.9 and 2.2 engines, most parts are cheap. Cons: some parts are expensive, suspension and electronics are unreliable, lots of worn examples. Issues: suspension misalignment, electronic failures, exhaust rust, oil leaks. VW Passat (1996-2008, up to 300 kkm). Pros: reliable and tunable 1.9 TDI and 1.8T, good handling and comfort, spacious estate version, cheap parts, AWD version. Cons: lots of worn and cut-and-shut examples, unreliable 2.0 and 2.5 TDI, complicated suspension. Issues: suspension breakdowns, flywheel breakdowns, cambelt wear, halfshaft wear, 2.0 TDI head cracks, 2.5 TDI timing and injection pump failures. Premium: Main choice - BMW 3-Series (1998-2005, up to 250 kkm). Pros: great handling, lots of engine choices, reliable petrol engines, fuel-efficient diesels, can be found with nice equipment and 4x4. Cons: lots of abused and cut-and-shut examples, tight interior and trunk, bad automatics. Issues: suspension wear, steering misalignement, automatic breakdowns, A/C failures. Audi A4 (2000-2005, up to 275 kkm). Pros: lots of engine choices, reliable and tunable 1.9 TDI and 1.8T, available 4x4, cheap parts. Cons: lots of worn and cut-and-shut examples, unreliable 2.0 and 2.5 TDI, unreliable automatics, small estate trunk. Issues: automatic failures, alternator failures, 2.0 TDI head cracks, 2.5 TDI timing and injection pump failures. Lexus IS (1999-2002, up to 300 kkm). Pros: very reliable engines, good rustproofing, high comfort, 3.0 can be tuned up to four-figure HP. Cons: no wagon, no diesel and 4x4, not a lot of choice, 3.0 is automatic only, expensive parts, handling not on par with the Germans. Issues: 2.0 oil leaks, rubber bushing wear. What do you think?
So, here goes the next section of €1k cars, compacts and midsizers: Toyota Corolla (1992-1999, up to 200 kkm). Pros: good reliability, lots of well-maintained examples, low fuel consumption. Cons: no really good diesel, dull handling, more expensive parts than with competitors. Issues: rust, neglect by previous owners. VW Golf/Jetta (1991-1998, up to 200 kkm). Pros: cheap parts, wide range of reliable engines, simple construction, large choice of cars, large trunk. Cons: many worn examples, lots of cut-and-shuts, corrosion-prone. Issues: rust, interior wear, neglect by previous owners. Audi 80/A4 (1986-1997, up to 250 kkm). Pros: good rustproofing, reliable engines, good handling, 4WD available, cheap parts. Cons: many worn and cut-and-shut examples, A4 has a complicated suspension setup, tight interior. Issues: electrical glitches, A4 suspension misalignment, neglect by previous owners. Do you have any change suggestions?
