okie dokie buddy just learn how to drive correctly. You are the only one having these problems so it’s probably a hardware problem, or you just not knowing how to drive. --- Post updated --- Agre
Real cute. I'm not using a controller, I'm using a wheel and I play dozens of racing games from sims to actual arcade titles alongside driving an actual vehicle. The Beam tires freak out when put under stress. They also have a tendency to bounce and just generally have very little traction to begin with. The tire model needs to be improved as it's rather unrealistic as it stands. I don't know why everyone has to get so damn defensive over games, especially "sim" games. --- Post updated --- That doesn't even make sense. The game understeers at low speeds and it's my hardware at fault? Okie Dokie. You're right, the game is 100% reflective of real life and completely infallible. So much so that thermals don't even exist.
I have never had a problem with understeer or tires freaking out other than when going way faster than what they would be rated for. Tires and the cars in general feel very realistic. Maybe your FOV is weird causing a lack of sense of speed, or you aren't being fluid enough with the car? I have had this game since 2014 with over 1000 hours. I've played using a keyboard, controller, and wheel; all of which are capable of driving the car very fast with the right settings and user methods.
BeamNG is reflective of real life and most racing sims make the cars have completley unrealistic amounts of traction so it is easier for the player to race.
I have a question for you, good sir, have you ever used your fingers to navigate to the "game" tab and eyes to read the game's description? "BeamNG.drive is a realistic, immersive driving game offering near-limitless possibilities. Our soft-body physics engine simulates every component of a vehicle in real time, resulting in realistic, dynamic behavior." You can't simulate rock crawling in Forza because the suspension physics in that game aren't made to simulate that type of realism. BeamNG doesn't focus on JUST driving, it's supposed to SIMULATE realistic physics, like realistic suspension, engine damage, body damage, realistic traction levels, etc. Now, if I may, I believe you are the person who just made a "completely false and idiotic statement."
Forza and Beamng both do a decent job approximating car behavior, but both have significant flaws in their approach. Forza, which was made for Xbox, uses a much more simple, paired down simulation system, mainly focused on having a fun time. Because it's primarily intended to be used with controllers, it doesn't use straight input values to control the car. Because it modifies the values to avoid understeer, twitchiness, and the like, it feels that for the same input, the car is grippier, but that isn't the case. The controller setup is so modified that it barely makes sense to compare them on the physics front. Beamng, on the other hand, was intended for high-power PCs and wheels, does the complete opposite. It uses are much more holistic physics model and unfiltered inputs. However, it does have several major issues, mainly revolving around the tires. Beamng's tire physics are approximately equal to if not worse than Forza's. Despite doing so much work to get the physics right, without proper tires, which currently use only 2 values for static and dynamic friction, realism is never quite going to be perfect. Yes, Beamng is slightly more realistic in some areas, but not because it uses the approach that it does. Both are approximations of how cars behave. However, any sort of comparison to any other racing game doesn't make sense in terms of how the game is structured and how it works.
I think that is two different types of games above. Select only one to give the opinion. --- Post updated --- Why the person was saying about understeering then? Look the topic case before reply.
Yes I completely agree with your post, especially what concerns the tire physics. I don't know why but tire physics remains a big issue up til today in the entire simulation scene. Though developers may ignore or disagree with the statement I dear to speak out and say it's true.. and I don't know why because I believe a solution might be easier than what to expect. I've driven all the big titles for years and it might sound crazy but often I went thinking the real world auto industry had a hand in setting the limits of realistic feel of driving a car. My thinking went this far because I always felt dead certain that it can't be difficult to line realistic tire behavior up with the controls. True or not, there still is another huge problem concerning the benchmark of realism, and that is force feedback. It does no good at all in keeping the car in control in a realistic manner. Maybe if tire physics would come to a more mature state of realism then force feedback could resemble a better ambassador for realistic driving experience, but as I see it from today's standards, ffb is just a support for the lack of intuition caused by a lack of immersion, something I learned to surpass for those obvious reasons. I always keep my own core file settings aside so I can port them over from update to update, but they still aren't sufficient enough to count for correct tire behavior, in some cases it comes really close By reading your post I'm starting to realize what might be lacking the current developers (from different sims in general) formula for better tire realism. Relying on the basic function's instructions of the game engine might not be sufficient. I believe that if an additional timer (timer as in a program's code) would be involved in order to scrape off the extremes (too much understeer, too much oversteer) that there is chance too reach a much better result. Because that's what's happening all the time isn't it ? If you understeer, the tires never seem to com out of their slide in time, and when the back end swings out it barely comes to a well balance between sliding and gripping which happens all the time in the real world. I can see possible solutions in my mind but I won't be able to focus on them at the moment, it (the subject) remains an interesting discussion though while it shouldn't. It should have been fixed by a long time from now
And that has what to do with anything? Forza also typically operates pretty understeery by limiting steering input. Again, what does Forza have to do with anything? Why does everyone start a debate assuming the other is completely inept? I said his statement was dumb and false, which is true. Simulating rock crawling has more to do with transmission modes than suspension physics, so by default you don't really know what you're talking about. To be clear, Forza has all the appropriate suspension simulation. Probably very similar to what Beam has, minus body torsion and flex, which is pretty minimal. What Forza lacks is a low range gearbox and adjustable locking diff in real time like Beam has. Give that to Forza and it'll do just fine. The key word in there is SUPPOSED. Physics are like, super hard. It's very CPU intensive, and I refuse to have an argument with anyone believing Beam Is a perfect 1:1 representation of the real world, because A. It obviously isn't, and B. The game has zero tire thermals and a rudimentary tire model. In fact, you can't claim "most racing sims make the cars have completley unrealistic amounts of traction so it is easier for the player to race" when Beam is using the same tire model, except it has missing elements that even Forza takes into account. Also take into account pro, semi-pro, shitbox, drifters etc. all say that racing sims don't have enough grip compared to actual cars and the sims they use professionally to practice. Take the small handful of people that drift in Beam, that drift in reality, and in other sims, and they'll tell you the same thing. The tires in Beam freak out when they're overstressed and don't have enough grip. --- Post updated --- They'll all deny it, but 90% of all racing games (even arcade titles like The Crew simulates more than you'd think, just with weird values) use the same basic tire model. AC also only simulates one point at the center of the tire and made a big deal about switching to 5 point simulation in ACC. There's probably a lot of other games that do that too. https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/...oducing-the-5-point-tyre-model-for-acc.59307/
Have you ever tried rock crawling in Forza? It is nowhere near where BeamNG.drive is. You can't have traction on rocks, there is no suspension flex, and tires bounce around and sometimes launch the car into a roll. BeamNG's system is not perfect yet, but remember, the game is in early access and is actively being developed. The chassis physics model is in a league of its own and the tire physics are not the worst on the market. The devs have also proven that the cars in BeamNG.drive grip slightly better than real world counterparts in a skidpad. Most other games don't use actual rolling tires, as they just "simulate" the contact patch on the ground as 1 or more points. Tires don't roll up onto curbs and rocks in those games and just blink up and down to the level of the road surface, so how could they possibly be accurate? Other games create a decent illusion of driving, but don't really simulate in-depth enough to be anything other than an illusion.
However, both are inherently an illusion of driving. Beamng does it the right way, but that generally means it does better in extreme situations as opposed to more average ones. I love beam. I'm infinitely happy that it exists, and firmly believe that it is the best on the market. That being said, it's not incredibly different from other simulators in a lot of situations: it's just that beam has so much larger of a scope.
The point I am trying to get is that the other games constantly feel off and break immersion for me. Its like watching a bad movie and something in the poor writing makes you remember you are watching a movie, it just pulls you out of the experience. I haven't had the same thing happen in BeamNG.drive other than when problems occur with my wheel because its unreliable junk . Every other simulator available to consumers that I have played just has moments where they feel off or the car behaves unrealistically or unrealistically perfect that it just breaks my immersion.
Where is there to even try rock crawling in Forza? Have I missed something? When did Forza get a rock crawling DLC? Why the actual hell is everyone talking about Forza? Why are we talking about rock crawling in a question about understeer and tire models? Rock crawling happens at 2-5mph. Why would there be a loss of grip at that speed? Are we talking about the arcade game Horizon? No shit the physics aren't perfect, they're not meant to be. What rocks!? What do you mean there's no suspension flex? Forza simulates the suspension compression and spring rates fine, it even simulates different arms. When do the tires bounce? Launching cars into rolls isn't inherently unrealistic considering how many roll overs and cars flying through the air are, and how top heavy a lot of larger vehicles are. You know what game has bouncy tires and suspension? Beam. A lot of games use rolling resistance, some of them even do tire flex. ACC now has a 5 point contact system. I literally posted the video. How do I say the tires freak out when they overstress and the conversation turns to rock crawling at 2.5mph to disprove my point by ignoring it entirely? Do you know that Project Cars 2 will simulate the entire thermal structure of the tires from carcass zones and plies to increase PSI and internal temperatures that will in turn slowly bleed off and heat up the brakes? Do you know that Beam has literally none of that? Did you know that PC2 will simulate tire flex, contact patch, and carcass independently and they all interplay with pressure and temperature? https://www.reddit.com/r/simracing/comments/6kf6yn/project_cars_2_flexing_tire_model/ I.. ju... you don't even know what you're talking about. Seriously when did Forza get a rock crawling DLC!?
i would ignore the forze stuff. its an arcade game. but you seem to have glossed over what he said here: this game is way ahead on the tire model compared to any other game. can it be improved? absolutely? is it worth the performance setback? the devs say no.
The game at minimum needs thermal simulation. I could argue as to why what he said is pretty irrelevant, but it doesn't matter and there's sims that do use rolling dynamic tires, like Project Cars that also simulate tread patterns, temperature, water, tearing, adhesion, flat spots, etc. that Beam hasn't even begun to touch. The one single advantage it has over some sims is that it has multiple tire points being simulated at all times, and it's not the only one that does that, while missing basic necessities that every other game has. It just bothers me that Beam had a rudimentary tire update 5 years ago and nothing since, meanwhile they're creating drive modes and accurate ABS simulation when the primary interaction is fundamentally flawed. People blindly arguing that it's perfect and infallible doesn't give them a reason to focus on it