Hirochi Sunburst Drift Missile spinning out

Hi all! Just bought the game as a newcomer to sim driving and it's been amazing (and punishing) so far. I've got a fairly good hang of the driving, so I wanted to try drifting. [using Logitech G29]

Chose the blank infinite map (with that tiled floor) and the Hirochi Sunburst Drift Missile car. I've seen a few tutorials on how to drift in the game, but always one of these things happen (assuming I want to drift towards the left):

1. I let go of the throttle, quickly turn left while very briefly flooring the throttle, and immediately counter-steer right - I always spin out regardless of my throttle work during the counter-steer
2. I let go of the throttle, quickly turn left while very briefly feathering the throttle and immediately counter-steer:
a) the car always spins out if I even touch the throttle during the counter-steer (even if I pressed the throttle the correct amount during the initial left turn)
b) if I press the throttle too gently during the initial quick left turn, the car immediately changes direction, goes into an oversteer towards the right and spins out
c) if I press the throttle the right amount during the initial quick left turn, and don't touch the throttle, then the car doesn't spin out but slows down substantially

I've tried to initiate the drift in 2nd gear, 4k-5k RPM range as well as 2nd gear, 5k-6k RPM range. If I try at higher RPMs I spin out. If I try in 1st gear, I spin out

All this difficulty in just initiating a simple powerslide to the left - can't even call it a drift. Can anyone give some tips what on earth I'm supposed to do to not spin out? Since the car is specifically called Drift Missile, I'm assuming it's possible to drift using that and many folks have succeeded/

 

Well, drifting in BeamNG is somewhat more difficult as compared to other games as for now it still doesn't simulate tire temperature/wear so the tires are always at a certain "temperature" (grip level) which doesn't make drifting any easier. You can drift but I would recommend using some more normal tires & quick ratio steering if possible. The other issue is with the G29. The motors in it are a bit too underpowered & don't give out enough torque (only 0.02Nm per motor), which makes it unable to rotate to the opposite direction quickly enough which in turn makes the drifting more difficult as well. One thing that I might suggest is to set your steering type to Direct in the FFB settings.

 

The reason I was frustrated was because I've seen youtube videos with folks drifting in the same cars that I'm spinning out in. Not only that - while drifting they're able to press the throttle in bursts - even flooring it in bursts. If I so much as touch the throttle, the car spins out.

Based on what you said, does that mean I'm spinning out because my counter-steer isn't quick enough? The key is in the delay between the initial turn and the counter-steer?

 

That's one of the reasons; not much can be done about it unless you'll invest in a better wheel

 

Just use MuYe's Drift sunburst CVT, it is amazing i tell you!!

 

Also, the drift configs in beam tend to be very very very unstable in straight lines. They constantly want to spin, and tend to snap. They are more of meant for experts, and those who are very good at drifting. You should use a grand marshal police interceptor with drift steering, its much easier.

 

by better do you mean quicker?

 

I see what you mean. I'd downloaded the Toyota AE86 Trueno mod and was trying out the tofu delivery config. It's much more comfortable to initiate drifts in that. I'm able to drift around the first hairpin in the "standard" section of the Automation test track. But to exit the drift without spinning out, I have to let go of the accelerator almost completely, making my exit speed at around 30 km/h, which seems slow.

It's tough to know what's a "good" exit speed - I'm sure it depends on the turn and the car both. So it's really tricky to figure out how far I am from the optimal drift.

 

BeamNG is mostly played for vehicle destruction, a newcomer to sim driving should play sim racing games. Although the tire physics improvement in 0.21 update helped a lot on vehicle handling, the vehicle handing is still not perfectly real. The handing in BeamNG is mostly OK, but not optimized for drifting.

Vehicle IRL can be drifted with smooth throttle application, but in BeamNG, the vehicles dynamics during sliding is a bit off, making players use PWM or bang-bang control on their throttle.
The explanation are as below.

Most if not all vehicles IRL are tuned to a tiny bit of understeer to make cornering stable, too much understeer will hurt cornering G and oversteer will make the vehicle unstable. And unlike other driving sim, vehicles in BeamNG tend to oversteer when put in a slide regardless of throttle or drivetrain layout(but RWD is good for inducing a slide).

For example, the K-series

The vehicle is understeer when not sliding, then you hit the gas to make it slide, then you discover the sliding Kc6 is oversteery even after throttle reduction.


The same applies to the I-Series


And the Barstow(and possible other vehicles as well), possibly all drift vehicles behave like this as well.

However for vehicle IRL, when you are sliding due to throttle too high, you simply reduce throttle then the vehicle will starts to understeer.

Conclusion: Vehicle dynamics is already more realistic than most driving games but still not perfect, especially in the drift department

Vehicle suspension tuning understeer and drivetrain RWD
IRL:
Low throttle, not sliding: Understeery
High throttle, not sliding: Oversteery
Low throttle, sliding: Understeery
High throttle, sliding: Oversteery
BeamNG:
Low throttle, not sliding: Understeery
High throttle, not sliding: Oversteery
Low throttle, sliding: Oversteery
High throttle, sliding: Oversteery
Note: The above dynamics is partially remedied in the 0.21 update, before 0.21, the low throttle not sliding is even more understeery and the low throttle sliding is even more oversteery.

That's why drifting IRL is easier than drifting in Beam, in fact, experienced drifter IRL can maintain a drift using only throttle manipulation, which is not possible in Beam.

Thus, in order to drift in BeamNG, you need faster countersteer and faster throttle than drifting IRL, to counteract the difficulty.

First, all of your input(steering, throttle, brake, clutch) should be set to Direct

Then, if you are using a steering wheel, re-calibrate your wheel in a way to steer faster than IRL, such as making the wheel input 180 degree means BeamNG full lock steering.
Try set your steering to 1440 and 1:1 if you're using a 720degree wheel, this makes steering 2X faster
If you are using a joystick or game pad, setting Direct filter will make you able to countersteer full lock in 0.1s.
--- Post updated ---
Also don't use the Sunburst Drift, the Suspension setup is already oversteer

The 200BX Drift is actually better.

Also you can use throttle and brake at the same time, the rear wheel power and brake cancel each other, making the vehicle only front brake to create understeer to prevent spin-out

 

Wow! Thank you so much for the detailed and helpful answer. I'm using the AE86 Trueno tofu delivery config, which is friendlier than Sunburst drift. As you correctly pointed out, the main headache is "Low throttle, sliding: Oversteery". I have to completely let go of the throttle for the car not to slide out during the drift exit.

Can you give any suggestion on how to tune the car so that the car responds well to feathering the throttle during the drift exit? I imagine such tuning will make the drift initiation more difficult but I can live with that.

So that means if I have to drift left, I steer left, press the throttle and then immediately countersteer right as far and as quickly as I can. But what do you mean by "faster throttle"? Do you mean that the delay between the left steer and throttle should be minimum - otherwise the car will understeer?

I'm using a Logitech G29 which is a 900 deg wheel - what should the settings be for that? Sorry for the noob question.

Final question: Which sim game in your opinion has the most realistic drift physics? Closest to IRL among all sim games

 

With the drift configs, its not really keeping them sliding that is the problem, its preventing them from snapping. For some reason, at the end of the slide, they snap every single time as they grip up too quick.

 

yo, just try my mod, my Backyard drift sunburst

 

Yep, the "Low throttle, sliding: Oversteery" is the most difficult vehicle dynamics in BeamNG, if vehicles IRL behave like this, then at least half of them are deathtraps.

Another way to exit(and accelerating) is to not reduce throttle, but countersteer a bit more, when the angular velocity of the car reaches zero, immediately center steering wheel, if you center a bit late then fishtailing.

You can use clutch kick to initiate drift, simply clutch in during corner entry, then lift the clutch pedal very quickly after throttle application.

Since the "Low throttle, sliding: Oversteery" is a headache, when about to spin-out you need to reduce throttle earlier than drifting IRL, no further adjustment is needed, just use Direct. Some players simply use bang-bang control(either no throttle or full throttle) when drifting in BeamNG, in comparison, since IRL "Low throttle, sliding: Understeery" you can drift IRL and maintain a little bit oversteer by gently control throttle.
In BeamNG, if the vehicle is about to grip(after sliding), it'll suddenly become understeery, and if if the vehicle is about to slide it'll suddenly become oversteery(even after reducing throttle), thus you have to reduce throttle faster than drifting IRL.

For example left turn, steer left, hit the gas quickly, when the vehicle slides, reduce the gas and countersteer, make sure the angular velocity never reaches zero before drift exit, if the slide angle is too low, reduce countersteer(turn the steering wheel towards center) and increase throttle, if the slide angle is too high, increase countersteer and reduce throttle.

For "normal operation", set the angle setting to 900 and 1:1. increase the setting degree effectively reduce the steering ratio, making steering more sensitive, and vice versa.

Sorry I'm not a drifter, I played Project CARS 2, Automobilista, Wreckfest, and BeamNG, but I seldom drift intentionally(aside from powersliding in rally).
The above explanations are from my driving experience in Time Trials in BeamNG(see below)

The "grip" in BeamNG is like an ON/OFF switch, at the end of the silde, if you countersteering a little bit less, the vehicle will respond with nothing, as if you didn't do any countersteer at all. If you countersteering a little bit more, the vehicle will fishtail immediately.
During numerous time cornering in Time Trials, sometimes the vehicle lost traction in the middle of a turn, since "Low throttle, sliding: Oversteery", reducing throttle to regain traction won't work. I had to increase throttle (counter-intrusive) to push the vehicle centripetal, then countersteer to reduce sliding angle at corner exit. This effectively improvise an unintentional drift instead of crashing due to loss of control.

 

Dude thanks so much. I'll try to apply what you say - that balance of just the right amount of countersteering and throttle control is what I need to master. I'll post again in this thread down the line to update my progress. On the bright side, I guess getting used to drifting in beamng should make it easier in other games like AC.

 

Will do!

I wish that happened for me When I try drift configs my car just spins out with the slightest bit of throttle at the exit. I'd be really happy if my car snapped

 

@Shirish , on top of the other suggestions I highly recommend you to give your steering and throttle some linearity. I keep my steering linearity around 1.4 and throttle linearity between 3 and 3.5 . For clarity, these are the settings inside the game and have nothing to do with your wheel's own settings. I'm very happy with the way I can drift in Beam, just posted this one earlier.

By the way, welcome to the forums.

 

Thank you! Helpful people here. I'll read up about the settings and what they mean. I'll also do some trial and error with those settings to see how the car handling changes with different settings - maybe that'll be more helpful than just a theoretical knowledge.

 

i have a drift sunburst thats easy to drift, and i make mods, so do you want me to give my drift sunburst or make one? you choose

 

That's part of your problem. When you let off the throttle, even a little bit, you're transferring weight to the front wheels, which will already be pointed in the opposite direction since you're counter-steering during the corner. That weight transfer is enough to allow those front wheels to grip up and snap the car around, it's called lift-off oversteer. Rather unintuitively, you actually need to floor the throttle when you exit from a drift.

I use a G29 too, and I find that the biggest problem is that I can't countersteer fast enough so I over-rotate every time. I had slightly better results by reducing the force feedback to nearly nothing and throwing the wheel in the opposite direction, but that's not the way it should be done. The wheel is supposed to turn by itself as you bring the rear out when initiating the drift, and you hold it in place whilst making adjustments to negotiate the corner. That just doesn't happen with the G29/G920 unfortunately. It's a good wheel for general driving and racing, but no good for drifting without a lot of fiddling. Luckily I only borrowed the one I use so I'll be getting a belt-driven wheel when I eventually buy my own.