Is this the most realistic driving/racing sim according to some of you guys?

so why do all the cars have garbage force feedback the ffb feels delayed and choppy

 

i still like the game just like the ffb to get fixed on dd1 wheels/high end wheels

 

Well... that may be other issues at hand there. I don't have any delay or any choppiness in my setup what so ever when its all working correctly. Sometimes there is a driver issue with my G920 where I do have connection issues that show up as the symptoms you describe... and for whatever reason it only ever happens in beam... but most times, a simple restart seems to fix my issues, and then its gone.

 

I recently got a G920 as well and the ffb is working great for me. It does seem a little weak, but I haven’t tried it with any other games yet and maybe I’m just used to a stronger wheel idk.

 

Yeah, its a good starter wheel, but if definitely lacks in force it is able to create. This compounded with the fact that a lot of the cars in BeamNG are based off real cars who's designs attempt to reduce steering feedback, not increase it, ends up making cars feel more numb than one would expect for a sim game. Then you go over to something like Asseto Corsa where the feedback feels very direct despite how much the G920 is lacking, and it makes BeamNG seem as though the feedback sucks... but the reality is that Beam's feedback doesn't suck... its realistic. Asseto Corsa's feedback feels amazing, but that's because they are taking the forces right off the tires themselves. There are no linkages in the way, no real geometry concerns, no difference in steering box or rack systems, no steering dampers... none of that. You just get the forces right off the tires... which in turn... makes their force feedback feel precise, and amazing. Also I keep saying Assetto Corsa, but most sims work in this manner. Thus why most games feel REALLY direct in comparison to how Beam feels. Its not that either one is wrong... its just that most sims skip out on the suspension linkages and just go straight to calculating off the contact patch of the tire directly. Beam takes their forces off the steering rack since... well... why not? That's where real cars will feel the effects, so that's where they should pull their forces from right?

This has both benefits and drawbacks... benefits? It feels exactly as someone that drives real cars would expect it to feel like. Drawbacks? It doesn't feel like what a Sim Racer expects it to feel like.

 

Yeah, Beam's more realistic than real life
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Jokes aside, as a real-world driver I once drove over a pothole and my steering wheel immediately veered away and I had to hold the wheel tightly to remain control. The body shake and the wheel "ffb" happened simultaneously, there was no delay.
Vibration travels in a whooping 5000m/s in metal parts and the suspension part is about 2m length, so the FFB delay should be about 0.0004s. In this case, even Asseto Corsa's FFB is too slow. It's not possible for modern PC to simulate that fast of FFB speed so you cannot blame Beam. If you want to make Beam's FFB realistic, the physics have to be done at least 5000Hz, which is currently impossible.

 

i have a fanatec podium dd1 i used to have a g920 years ago and the ffb felt normal but on both of my wheels the fanatec cls and my fanatec podium the ffb seems to be very wobbly and sometimes delayed and these work great in other games liike iracing and acc just in beam they have problems
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This is what I mean I know this is the cls I wasn’t bothered to set up the podium https://youtube.com/shorts/H9M93Xcv_lA?feature=share

 

Well... while you are totally correct, that isn't what I was getting at in my post. When I stated that AC's FFB feals direct and "fast" I meant more along the lines that it feels that way because their is no suspension geometry to deal with so I probably should have worded that better... Like... um... ok, think about it like this.

In a real car, due to how the tie rods are linked up to the hubs. When the car is going straight the angle between the tie rods and the hubs is roughly 90°. It's not exactly 90° because of toe settings and ackerman angles, but for explanation purpose's, lets just call it 90°.

When driving along, and you hit a bump going in a straight line, you can feel lots of force when you hit bumps just as you describe. When the tires are straight like this they have maximum leverage against the steering rack, thus they also have maximum leverage to push that rack and sent those forces up into your steering wheel.

The further you turn the wheel though, the less feeling you will have. This is because as you turn the tires, you are changing that angle from the tie rods to the hubs. The higher the angle, the less leverage the tires will have to be able to push against the steering rack, and thus a reduced force being sent through the rack into your wheel reducing feedback.

Now in normal driving you will never notice this... it only will really start to show itself when you are near the ends of your steering rack (lock to lock if you will) but my point is it is there. If your car can turn its tires decently sharp, you can go out and test this in a bumpy area right now. Driving straight, you will feel a lot, even at very low speeds. Turning very sharp (but keeping off the end of the rack as that's cheating) you will still feel forces, but they will be greatly reduced.

So... what's my point. What does turning the wheel sharply have ANYTHING to do with how the FFB feels in AC or Beam. Well... nothing really. But my point is that you will not have this reduced FFB on most cars in AC other than maybe drift cars as the tires start to turn so tight that the forces on the contact patches will just behave differently giving a similar effect where as on Beam cars, you will always have this effect. As long as the suspension is set up realistically, you will have this effect, and the tighter the tires can turn, the more force you will lose. This is a direct result of taking the forces off the steering system after all the linkages that AC just doesn't simulate.

Again though... what's my point. Well, as stated before, most real life vehicles are designed to have reduced FFB as much as possible for... eh... driving comfort? We shall go with that. In doing so, the distance that the tie rod is from the rotation of the hub is purposely made to be very large... usually as large as possible. This means that it takes much less effort to turn the wheel even if there is no power steering. If you reduce this distance, the further you reduce it, the more leverage you are giving the tires. This will in turn increase FFB as the forces will be amplified. This is not how most cars are designed however, because remember, we are trying to reduce forces in most cases... not increase them. Granted this also can come down to the rack ratio as well. The higher the rack ratio, again, the less force is transmitted to the steering wheel.

That is what I was getting at... not so much the delay in the simulation... but more along the lines of the type of vehicles we are driving. My best comparison is the Sunburst and my Impreza as they are fairly similar in construction and suspension geometry. The Sunburst is a little numb in FFB, but its still pretty communicative. Honestly it feels almost identical to my Impreza to a point that you would think they just came here and measured it. But my Impreza isn't an impressive one... its just a bargain basement economy car. It wasn't made to be exciting... it was made to get from point A to B as cheaply as possible.

Other cars I have are on the other end of the spectrum like my Corvette or my Fiero. They have steering systems designed to amplify steering feel, and you can tell when you drive them. They both have much shorter tie rod knuckle to steering center despite the tires being MUCH larger than my Impreza's tires, and their turning circle is FAR larger than the Impreza's due to lower steering rack ratio's. My Impreza is 3.2:1 Lock to Lock while my Fiero is 3.0:1 Lock to Lock and my Corvette is 2.32:1 Lock to Lock. The less rotation, the more force you will feel.

That is what I was getting at when I was talking about Beam isn't bad, its realistic.

Now does this mean its perfect? No, not at all... it still can be massively improved with response time and all that fun stuff... but what I am saying is I think whenever they finally make a really good sports car with terrible turning circle, that is when we will get a car with really good force feedback most likely.

Well... I don't think that is actually the way to go... I mean... you could... but I don't think it would speed up FFB response. More than likely, its some sort of delay in processing the FFB after the numbers have been attained already than it is an issue in finding out what the forces are in the first place. Remember, Beam calculates all its forces at 2000Hz while most games only use about 180Hz for FFB. I think AC runs at 333Hz for some reason? So my guess is that since most wheels run at goofy frequencies and Beam just runs at a steady 2000Hz is possibly where the inconsistency's come in... but that's just speculation there. Don't take that as fact.

OOF... ok, I see what you mean there. I don't experience anything like that. I wonder if that could be solved with just setting's or if this is just some sort of inconsistency with Beam and these wheels? Do other wheels have these issues?

 

Jesus how much free time do you have?

 

Why? You mean how long the post is or by studying suspension geometry? I think both can be summed up by saying I am an Engineer... so I kinda nerd out over this stuff.

 

I can understand being into that kinda stuff. I was mostly talking about that monolith of text lol

 

Oh, yeah... I just typed that up on my lunch break... just kinda board at work. Also I was trying to convey it in a way that was understandable as I clearly messed up in my previous post.

 

This is what I mean I know this is the cls I wasn’t bothered to set up the podium

I've only used three wheels for beamng the Logitech g920,fanatec podium and cls elite the logitech worked fine with no issues and both of the fanatec wheels have the same issue i had tried to set up the wheel alot of times but it either wobbles like in the video or its delayed ive heard people having similar issues on the simcube 2 and the accuforce wheels

 

Here is one of the most accurate ffb settings ive had in beamng drive. It does the job very well. ALSO Very important, if your wheel feels to weak or toooo strong then its not the settings fault but the Setup-Specific Force FeedbackMultiplier that is tooo strong or too weak. Sometimes you have to use 131% or as low as 50% to have the correct feeling. This can be found by pressing ctrl+W and click tuning. These settings make for a super realistic ffb which i find pretty good! this is the second best sim game if you know how to set it up well. The first best is Assetto corsa IMO but Beamng drive has more fun futures like crashing and very customizable features when at the same time being a good sim game. Beamng drive id easily rate 9/10. So yes this is one of the most realistic car games ive ever played.

 

TBH i think this is the most Realistic driving game. With a steering wheel set up. All the stuff you can do ( even add power steering ) Tune it all.

or just crash and stuff the cooling system and/or old pan.

so this is the best IMO.

 

How can a scripted physics be better than one who does it organically like beam.ng?

 

Beamng drive is amazing but it has many problems when it comes to ffb. Kunos made a great job at handling plus the modding community is so huge it makes the experience so much better. Beamng drive is still far from done and i think its still in alpha, assetto corsa on the other hand is a fully released game and the only thing updating it afaik is the modding community with content manager, sol etc. Assetto corsa was a huge success and its still worth buying.