Unrealistic force feedback?

Hi guys,
Not sure if this has been asked before, I just registered and nothing similar came up with a quick query.

So I got tired of the gamepad and just bought a G920 wheel because of this game (take it as a compliment), but I find the FFB to take away the edge of the challenge in driving a car fully manual.
I mean I switched off every kind of assist I could possibly find in the menu and still for some reason the car keeps reducing the oversteer on its own. I admit I never raced a real car so I can't compare, but from my snow driving experience I can't remember if my car was actively counter-steering a slide. Probably not.
There's this effect for the front wheels to self-center themselves when I let the wheel go after a normal turn because of the caster angle if my car knowledge is holding up, but that is only pulling the wheel back to centre. It should not counter-steer because of the caster angle, should it? So what makes a car counter-steer other than the drivers input? I'd expect the steering angle to stay where it is during a slide and to not follow the drift angle if that makes sense. I don't know cars to behave like this in real life, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I only accept that from someone who actually knows what he's talking about (real life rally experience or relevant to it).

This is disappointing for me, that the FFB is still assisting my driving despite oversteering assist being turned off.
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One example is when the car is going sideways for any reason (handbrake turns, or after collision or a Police Intervention Technique ®) my wheel goes to a full lock to counter it, but this is just sooo wrong. This is not how cars should work. I never in my life experienced any real car to steer itself to a full lock. In snow at least if I drifted it, the steering wheel just didn't move. I have a very limited experience with handbrake turns on wet tarmac (I had some fun with my 206 before it got scrapped, haha), but the wheel did not steer itself that time either. :S

 

Cars do have a natural tendency to counter-steer, as the front wheels try to align themselves with the direction of travel. The effect isn't as strong on low-grip surfaces (like snow), and will be affected by powersteering smoothing things up.

Here's a video from a drift school that shows the effect. Just look at how he pretty much lets the wheel go when initiating the slide.


The countersteering assist for the keyboard and controller is meant to kinda replicate this effect, to make drifting easier with those input devices.

 

I experienced IRL the wheel to get lighter when I counter-steered it as opposed to like when you try to work against it.
But that's just a subtle effect and it surely doesn't go a full lock when you spin out the car?

 

Basically, you're wrong and you've never driven a real car. The friction from the road causes the tires to countersteer, not to just return to center. The wheels want to rotate around their axle, so they take the path of least resistance to be able to do that. This means that yes, they do countersteer more than just back to center. If you've driven on ice there's no friction for that, but I can guarantee snow does if you get sideways.
BeamNG actually has the most realistic feeling FFB out of every game I've tried. Not necessarily the most detailed, but in terms of physical linkages, power steering, etc, it's the best. You're actually complaining that the game is realistic.

 

So you say if any car goes properly sideways (spinning out) on dry roads at a speed the steering wheel goes to a full lock on the opposite side if I let go of it? Of course I've driven a car. But I never ever have driven a car on its edge or spinned one out, so I can't tell. But why would an average Joe have rally or track experience?

 

If an "average Joe" does not have any rally or track experience maybe he shouldn't complain about FFB in one of the most realistic simulators, no? Why don't you go on YT and find some drifting videos. You'll see that a lot of drifters barely have to countersteer themselves, they just "catch" the wheel at the correct angle and use gas pedal to modulate the slide. And the self alligning torque can be really strong too, depending on the car and setup. I used to have a 97 Eclipse and it would definately countersteer when sliding on snow. Another example, I was driving a brand new Toyota Hilux in rain and was testing its grip on an offramp. The bed was empty so the rear wheels easily lost traction at about 70 km/h. The first thing I felt was the car rotating and the wheel trying to go to the left countersteering. It really helped me with the reaction and thanks to that effect I did not smash into the barrier.

Since you have mentioned that you had a 206 that you scrapped, it tells me that it was probably in a terrible condition which could have caused it to behave weird. Besides, if you feel your steering wheel get lighter, most likely your front wheels lost traction which is a different effect from countersteering. If you want criticize something, I at least do some research man.

To sum up: no, the game is not trying to help you. Those are the actual forces that go through the simulated car to your wheel.

 

That's good enough for me. Thanks.

PS: this is my research.

 

I get practically zero counter-steer in this game with my Thrustmaster T500RS. I don't know what I'm supposed to do to fix it.
It behaves fine in every other game I have: assetto, dirt rally 2, dirt rally 1, dirt 2/3/4, GRID (2008 and autosport), automobilista, live for speed, city car driving, etc.

 

This evening I'll give it an another go and see if I can replicate my own experiences in the game on loose surface/snow. Nothing extreme, just normal driving at normal city speeds. Even the vanilla game has some icy roads up in the mountains in one of the maps. If I don't get much counter-steer while skidding on those roads, then consider me convinced.

 

That results in a very very unrealistic feeling, exhaustion, and still lacking countersteering in every car except the ibishu mirimar

 

As long as you release the steering wheel, the tires want to go in the direction of the cars slide. Otherwise the tire forces would be rotationally torqued and applying torque to the axle. It wants as little torque and friction as possible. That's where the castor angle comes in and it forces it to straighten out, just like a rolly chair wheel. Unless you held the wheel into a turn so it's too horizontal to the cars vector for it to switch directions, it will always recenter itself.

As to the vanilla game having icy roads, I don't know which one. But the ETK training center has ice simulants that confused me as to why it behaved like ice since I thought it was just supposed to be water. Very little friction, thus very little to no countersteering.

 

Watch this at 9:40, it constersteers automatically

 

Yeah I get none of that in BeamNG (except for a little bit in the ibishu mirimar and one of the pessimas) but I do get it in EVERY other game.

 

Okay, I'm convinced. I took the default truck up in the mountains on the Automation Test Track for some icy test. With and without power steering.
It did perfectly resemblance what I thought how a car should work. Little to no counter-steering at the 20-30 mph range if I skid the car or when the rear end steps out, etc. Then some on the loose dirt road up the hill, and then the full force on the dry tarmac.
Little I knew about this effect as it turns out, but the game seems legit now.
Thank you guys for dropping some knowledge on me!
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Now I just try to fine tune the FFB settings on the G920. I find it has a massive deadzone in the centre or when you switch directions. Is this because of the belt drive? If I decrease the linearity I get sightly better results, but then I also get a "notch" feeling that it sits in the centre and take some force to initiate a turn. Is this an FFB limit that I don't normally get much friction in the centre (feels like freeplay, only without the actual deadzone) or is this a feature of the G920?

 

Your curve should be straight, so 1:1. Maybe you could fiddle with response curves ?

 

I have this installed. Still... :/
Can you adjust the response curve manually in the game?