WIP Beta released Luuks Tyre Thermals and Wear Mod [FEEDBACK THREAD] 1.3

How realistic is the effect of speed on tire temperature currently? With Radial T/As on a Moonhawk I can still see the tires slowly cooling down at speeds of 140+ MPH, whereas the real life tire this is based on has a T speed rating (and some similar go as low as S) with a UTQG "temperature" rating of B (some similar go as low as C), meaning in theory it should overheat and blow out fairly quickly at sustained speeds over 120MPH.

The reason I ask is that I have kind of a beef with muscle car owners who continue to use small wheels and "classic look" tires rather than modern low-profile performance tires; to me it says "tell me you don't actually drive it hard without telling me you don't actually drive it hard". However I work with someone on another site who is a muscle car purist and hates the modern-restomod aesthetic regardless of the effects on performance. So I'm looking for a way to settle this debate; are these tires actually capable of much higher speeds than their ratings would indicate?

 

Small wheels with lots of sidewall are actually beneficial for drag racing, which muscle cars tend to gravitate towards.... plus 99% of people that have a classic muscle car that AREN'T drag racing it, use it as a show car and arent canyon carving or doing 140MPH down I70. So there's no real point in having a thin sidewall tire especially if they don't like the look.

 

Well I mean, that's the whole point. People build cars with great potential and then just use them as show/cruise cars. Multiple examples in my town include:

-A beautiful purple 1st gen (I think 1968) Camaro convertible with stick shift, some kind of LS swap (I want to say it's a truck 5.3 but I'm not sure), a roll cage... and 14" wheels with Cooper Cobra Radial G/T (worse than BFG RTA somehow) tires. Maybe it's some kind of autocross car and they swap tires before racing it, but still.

-A C3 Corvette with a 427 and, again, stick shift... and Radial T/As. (This one I can sort of forgive as there are very few cars which are easier to take down, aesthetically, with the wrong wheel/tire package.)

-An early/mid first-gen Mustang with a 5-speed stick and custom 160-MPH speedometer, both of which suggest a fairly serious engine... and then the typical 14" wheel with Radial T/As.

I don't precisely know what's been done to any of these cars' engines, but I feel confident in saying they all have over 350 horsepower, the Corvette may have over 400 depending on how badly the original gross rating overestimated it, and the semi-modern gearbox in the Mustang tells me 450-500 may not be out of the realm of possibility, but they all have tires that might just barely get them to 0.85g on a good day with a passable suspension setup, on which less than 10 seconds at full throttle separate normal cruising speeds from blowout risk. At that point, what's the point? Why not just leave the driveline stock, or mildly modify up to about 300 horsepower? (Which is the maximum I would ever trust on a speed rating lower than V)

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I have a hard time fully respecting a car that isn't built to tear it up. But maybe the tires are better than I think they are, I don't know. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

 

Maybe so they can just light the tires up on command?

Some people just want the power to say they have the power for the shows. My uncle has a 70 Chevelle SS 454, completely restored, has the same tire look you're talking about. Took it to the strip a few times and kept breaking stuff so it just got turned into a trailered show car that has just sat in a trailer for the past few years. (He is older and cant really do the shows anymore)

 

@lucky4luuk
Great work on this so far.

Some feedback, take it or leave it:

For this to really come into it's own, it probably needs a way of changing the tyre heating characteristics per car/config.
Some settings seem to work convincingly well with one car, but will leave another car on ice, in terms of tyre heating.

With the (admittetly limited) testing I've done so far, adjusting the load variable with a multiplier seems to be an O.K. way of changing tyre behaviour, for different cars.

I've not done any modding with beamNG, let alone played with LUA too much, so I'm not sure how feasable settings-files are. But I would assume you could detect what car/config is currently begin driven, and then use that to read a settings file for a specific config, with a fallback/default config if there isn't any.

Additionally, the default tyre behaviour seems to me that the surface temperature of the tyres, are too stable, and should be much more peaky.
But I'll need to do more testing.

Either way, appreciate what you've created here so far, and I'll defenitely be playing around with it some more myself

 

Having to create a setting per car would be tedious and not ideal, once it takes into account width and maybe pressure i think it'll be fine

 

It won't be near enough - IMO.

You have to consider that the forces going through a tyre is wildly different depending on many factors, ranging from the car itself, weight, suspension geometry, downforce, to the tyre, type of compound, size, and even environmental factors like the type of surface and it's temperature.

Currently the mod basically tries to simulate one specific tyre, for many different cars. But it should go without saying that if you throw an f1 tyre on a fiat 500, it's not gonna be great (would probably be akin to driving on ice).


Creating a setting for each car, is defenitely tedious and not a perfect solution, I agree. But honestly it's probably the only solution that will give you the control to make tyres that work for any type of car.


It doesn't mean that @lucky4luuk needs to actually implement settings for every official car and modded car. But it'll atleast extend the functionality so that people who do want to put in the effort to do that, can do that.

 

Do you know if it would be possible for you to add something like an app to make it possible to tweak how much wear there is on the tires?

 

this mod has a ton of guesswork, so it's definitely not the most realistic. ive been tweaking the mod over its development cycle and in the past few weeks (sorry for no updates ) and a lot comes down to comparing it to other sims and trying to get the behaviour right for "normal" race cars first and foremost.

thanks for the kind words, i really appreciate it <3
i think per config tweaking of the mod would be an insane amount of work for just me to pull off, but i have been thinking of exposing the different variables in some sort of way to allow mod developers to tweak them for their own car. i'm not sure if i'll end up implementing this however, because it both feels like a bandaid to the more serious solution of my incomplete math and bad guesswork, but it would also allow for much easier cheating in multiplayer, i think. i hope with some future updates it'll end up much nicer and more usable with different types of cars, but for now it might just be best to either not run the mod at all, or to tweak it yourself for the car you want to use it with.

i'm almost certainly not going to add something like this, because i don't want people to use it to cheat in multiplayer races. my main reason for making this mod was to improve multiplayer racing with friends, so it would be a dealbreaker to me if cheating was much easier in multiplayer

 

I am not experienced at all in modding so I have no idea if this also causes problems but maybe you could have two different versions of the mod?

 

@lucky4luuk

Yea nah I don't expect you to be making configs yourself x)

After looking into your code further, I realise I had some misconceptions as well with my initial feedback.

Tell me if I'm wrong here but I think you could do this:

Firstly: What tyres is the car using:
- width
- diameter
- friction coefficient (basically determining wether we're running road tyres, sport semi slicks or full race slicks).

Secondly, we need to consider the type of car, using the tyres. How much load it's going to put into the tyres.
- weight
- aerodynamic load

The big questionmark with this one is the "aerodynamic load".
I don't know if there's any way of "detecting" how much load, aerodynamics would result in, but my gutt tells me the isn't as it's calculated in realtime.

Then comparing these sets of parameters.

How much load the tyres are capeable of handling
VS
How much load the car would put into the tyres

And then adjusting the overall heating parameters, to fit the tyres and car characteristics.


Anyway, I'm just freeballin' here.

 

You could probably get it close enough so it is playable on all sizes of race tires at least using only maths, since there is no surface temperature, weight/downforce and suspension geometry is handled by the game

 

Well the tire load is measured, so there's no need to measure aerodynamic load and weight load separately, since they're both a force applied to the tire in the end

it's measured right ?

 

The difference is this:
Assuming a flat piece of road, the weight stays the same, but the aerodynamic load does not.
My intuition (which may be wrong, I'm trying to confirm with people who are smarter than me), tells me that you'd want different behaviour from the tyre, in the way it heats up, dissipates heat, flexibility and so on.

Essentially you'd want a harder tyre, but one that would still be able to cope with slower speed stuff where the load on the tyre is substantially less than in high-speed. Where as a car that has little downforce, loads the tyres more equally from slow to fast corners.

Maybe it's overcomplicating it, and maybe that assumption is wrong, and you'd just want a tyre that can handle more energy, overall..

Either way you'd want to account for the "avg" loading of the tyres essentially. Taking both weight and aerodynamic load into account. However the only way I see this is possible, is calculating avg. load when driving at a certain speed (basically taking a snapshot of the load on tyres at e.g. 100kph), then using this number to determine how much aggressively the tyre heating should be.

It's a workaround solution, but not sure there's any other way of doing it, except for adjusting it with a setting for the car.

 

Btw, what is the next big feature you are planning on adding to this mod?

 

when update

 

Saying a whole lot without saying much in a nutshell.

 

what happened with mod is it abandoned?

 

beamng forum users when a mod hasn't been updated for 0.01s :

 

How is it considered abandoned if it still works fine mate?