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Suspension Problem (change of toe, not bumpsteer)

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting: Bugs, Questions and Support' started by Ezah, Apr 17, 2024.

  1. Ezah

    Ezah
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    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2018
    Messages:
    4
    I made a quick unlisted Video where I explain the problem I described under the last BeamNG Instagram post:

    What I forgot to say in the Video is, that you can also see the effect it has on the movement of the car when it happens. The rear will move out when you get to the limit and its similar to how trail braking looks, but its not the same since its not caused by loss of grip, but the huge change of toe.

    My guess would be that the suspension parts are too elastic. So the fix could maybe just be to take out all the elasticity, but leave the plasticity. Correct me if im wrong, but afaik there are no simulated suspension bushings in Beam. So if the problem really is just the elasticity, it would be nice to make the suspension parts (suspension arms etc.) non elastic and add changeable suspension bushings. Normal ones for normal road cars, tuning bushings for track builds and track or removed bushings for complete track cars.

    I hope this can help, kind regards Ezah/rltheo.
     
  2. stenyak

    stenyak
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    Programmer & Global Moderator
    BeamNG Team

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    Aug 6, 2012
    Messages:
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    Hey, it's me, the dev from instagram. Thanks so much for posting here, I've forwarded this thread to the relevant people :) We're a bit busy these days during post-release, but we'll check sooner or later!
     
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  3. DiscoQuinn

    DiscoQuinn
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    BeamNG Team

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2015
    Messages:
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    Hiya! I've read through your comment and video. Thanks for sharing this. You have identified a problem with hub strength. It is flexing too much.

    Toe-curves are normal on almost all cars with independent rear suspension. They almost all toe-in, although there are a few rare cars that toe-out on compression, it's a severe majority that generally toe-in.

    Specifically the ETK you've shown is modeled after a BMW E28 suspension with a common 80's trailing arm type suspension. This style of suspension actually had some of the most aggressive toe-curves in OEM suspensions. The E21, E28, E30, E36 318ti, Z3, and many other BMW's of that era used a version of this suspension. Lowering these cars can result in quite extreme toe-in, and camber on the rear. MK2 MA60 Supras, MX73 Cressidas, and many other 80's cars had this style of trailing arm resulting in wild toe-curves. It was a wild west of new independent suspension designs. So it's okay that they have extreme toe-curves as that's relative to the era.

    However, your observation of the rear toeing out is the real gem here. This shows a flex, or instability in the hub that the car originally wasn't designed for. The wheel and tire combo post date the original JBeam design of this ETK, so it's likely the JBeam was never designed to quite reach those levels of stress. I'm sure other cars will do this too, especially on extremely grippy tires.

    Posted above looks like a Dev has seen this, so they're likely talking about it, and will have to review the hub strength of this car, and potentially others to balance the newer, grippier tires the game has since come out with.
     
    #3 DiscoQuinn, Apr 17, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2024
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Ezah

    Ezah
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    Dec 21, 2018
    Messages:
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    Cool! At first I've thought that its a problem with the wheel and hub connection, but I think when I was looking at the beams while driving I could also see them moving, thats why I thought its a problem with the whole suspension.
    I know about "toe curves" and thats what I tried to explain at the very beginning of the Video, but my english isn't the best, so Its hard to communicate everything.
     
    • Like Like x 1
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