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My Gripes with this Game

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jdbensch, Apr 15, 2017.

  1. tdev

    tdev
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    BeamNG Team

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    A response here is on my TODO list with this tab staying open. Need to coordinate some other things first so i don't block anyone. Reply in a bit.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. jdbensch

    jdbensch
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    Well thanks, I do appreciate an acknowledgement and I look forward to your reply.
     
  3. EruptionTyphlosion

    EruptionTyphlosion
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    My only gripe is the community at times and the frame rate. But the community can just act mature and I can buy a better PC, and then I'll have no gripes whatsoever.
     
  4. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
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    Go for that R5, really good value for money.

    But also I have seen many posting about low framerates with hardware I know should run at solid 60fps, but instead lowering details many tend to keep settings on high I guess, even when dropping to normal and keeping textures and AF high would give nearly same quality level, game can run smoothly with Intel HD 530, which is really amazing.
     
  5. EruptionTyphlosion

    EruptionTyphlosion
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    The best thing I heard all month was "made physics core 30% faster". That made my day.
     
  6. JZStudios

    JZStudios
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    But the entire purpose of having a system like that in any other game is to unlock new cars you can then use in free roam. They would have to lock off all the cars until you buy them, drastically reducing the free-roam. there's also the things like the van, RV, and big 18 wheeler that really don't fit into that scenario. Beam currently has a list of just 24 cars (but I might also have a mod or two installed) whereas any of the other games have a very large amount. GT has cars spanning back to the PS2 era, drastically inflating its number of quality models to well over 1000. Forza typically has somewhere near the 4-500 range, Burnout Paradise has 76...
    The other big-ticket issue is, most car fans like real cars. In a game like GTA or Burnout where licensing would clearly be an issue (and in GTA's case they couldn't POSSIBLY miss a chance to make every single car a dick joke) having false cars is fine, and they aren't very serious games. Beam touts off being an incredibly realistic physics based racing game, with no real cars. There's just confrontations there.
    The main point being that they would seem to have two options:
    1. Block all content (possibly even maps for the free roam) until you unlock them via campaign.
    2. Make the campaign completely separate and leave free-roam as it is.
    These both have major flaws being:
    1. Blocking all content would probably seriously annoy long time players, and there frankly just isn't enough content to make the campaign long or compelling enough. They would have to drag it out.
    2. Making a separate campaign would still make it short and uncompelling, except now it's completely optional and most people will just ignore it.


    At this point, Beam may as well be something like AC. They can add new content, and it'll be great (Or better than AC) but until they make some serious fundamental changes, alongside adding that new content, there just isn't a campaign worth a grain of salt.
     
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  7. EruptionTyphlosion

    EruptionTyphlosion
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    I think the career mode will be amazing, mostly because the devs have failed to disappoint. I have no clue about the unlocking though...
     
  8. jdbensch

    jdbensch
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    Look I appreciate contributions to the post, but this is ridiculous. Specifying and outlining the campaign mode and their "only" options is dumb. We don't know what the devs' plans are.This post was made in order to get a response from the devs to answer questions, not for speculation. I'd much rather hear it from the devs themselves what the options are and what the plans are instead of speculating. That's why I made this post, I'm tired of speculating.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  9. JZStudios

    JZStudios
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    Fair enough. But the Utah release already has a small snippet of campaign, so I'd expect more of the same. Guess I'll just wait to so what tdev has to say.
     
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  10. lukerules117

    lukerules117
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    More of the same but without the missing features(having a use for money mainly) in the current one
     
  11. kruleworld

    kruleworld
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    They probably have to write reports anyway, as it's the only way to track development of various modules and code changes.

    overall, Beam is better than Next Car Game, which basically goes dark for six to 12 months and then maybe an update.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  12. wrinkle345

    wrinkle345
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    I don't think beam having a separate campaign would ruin the campaign experience.

    Look at Gran Turismo for example, they have Arcade and Simulation modes. The arcade has almost everything unlocked and ready to race, yet people still play sim mode just for the challenge.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  13. jdbensch

    jdbensch
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    I still hope that tdev will respond to this post, I was looking forward to his response.
     
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  14. wrinkle345

    wrinkle345
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    not even mentioning the "Free Run" mode which is basically free roam.

     
  15. estama

    estama
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    BeamNG Team

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    We've seen it, and it is very thoughtful. Thank you for it.

    Speaking for me, i wanted to acknowledge your post sooner, but this week has been very hot with all the updates and fixes, thus the delay in replying.

    This update lasted longer because there were some pretty big changes all around. Base sound subsystem got replaced, which affected quite some other subsystems. The physics performance work required required quite some changes too. There were big changes in the extensions, scenarios, AI, tires etc. When you have a number of big changes happening in parallel, even a single one of them getting delayed (due to complications, new bugs, etc), forces the whole thing to get delayed.

    We usually speak about our work whenever we are certain that we'll be able to release it in the next update. A very big % of our work is in internal mundane stuff that isn't interesting. For example, cleaning up the slow motion internals was a quite big amount of work, but it is mainly internals work and not that interesting to speak about.

    For other things that are more interesting, we might not be certain that they'll be released up to a few days before an update. Usually the decisions happen a few weeks before an update, and by then the workload has increased to a point that we don't have much time to speak about them.

    Another problem is the nature of the work that happens on some subsystems. You mentioned the AI. While it might look the same to you, it took a ton of work to revamp/improve the speed and line planners inside it. For example, this is a part of Petros' work on it (on the speed planner part):

    https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/312569/non-uniform-circular-motion-velocity-optimization

    As it concerns the editor, we have it in our todo list to improve it. But this also needs planning and designing and most important of all time. Because these things are inherently uncertain, we cannot say anything concerning a timeline for the editor work.

    As it concerns map performance. This is a huge subject affecting both the GFX side and physics side. Luis for example, has a huge number of tasks in his todo list, so depending on availability, other more important mundane work (bug fixing, etc) and update schedules he might schedule a task concerning GFX performance or not. Most of the times, we give priority to the bottlenecks that our designers hit. But a lot of times, our designers have to wait too.

    As it concerns big maps. This is related to overall map/gfx performance. Our approach in these things is to prioritize the base infrastructure/techniques. So to be able to support big maps what has the highest priority is performance work which will help both small and big maps. On top of that, really big maps need special infrastructure to be efficient (like tiling, streaming and so on). Right now the "special" infrastructure is far in the future (we might look into it in future versions).

    We are so focused on the overall performance work, because this is the number one complain that we have been getting for quite some time now. It has already required a huge amount of work and research to be able to reach the performance we have right now.

    On the physics side, we are quite often in a situation in more recent computers, where the bottleneck is the GPU and not the CPU, and all that while simulating a lot more physics (with more accuracy) and more complex vehicles than at the beginning. This required algorithms and techniques that are novel and not found in the bibliography. On the graphics side, our performance has also improved a lot.

    What we are trying to achieve is detailed open terrains at high FPS (i like to say that we optimize for movement and not for screenshots). Most of driving games, have very detailed terrains around a strip of road. The open world games have huge but less detailed terrains. We aim at the middle. Very detailed medium sized open terrains with a focus on FPS.

    We like the FPS because it also improves the "presentation" of the physics (note that in all cases, the physics runs at 2 Khz). We like the detail because it makes for more interesting physics (every small and big rock in Utah is made from collision triangles and not from abstract collision shapes). So, due to both FPS and detail requirements we have to keep our terrains at certain sizes.
     
    #35 estama, Apr 22, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
    • Informative Informative x 16
  16. JZStudios

    JZStudios
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    I'm not saying it would ruin it, I'm saying it makes it uncompelling. The only Forza campaign (aside from the Horizon series) that I've come somewhat close to finishing was the original. I've since spent quite a bit of time in 2, 3, 4, 5, and a bit in 6.Barely ever touched the campaign. I don't play GT, but I'm assuming it's much the same. I doubt that many people ever come close to finishing it, or even get past the first few hours.
     
  17. jdbensch

    jdbensch
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    @estama, thanks for your response. It did provide some answers to some of my questions/concerns.
     
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