Taking steps: please remind me why AMD and this game don't mix well

For mobo I am now considering Asus ROG Strix B350-F Gaming, still going to have to look up more details though.

For processor support, it has this to say:

"AMD AM4 Socket AMD Ryzen™ 2nd Generation/Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics/Ryzen™ 1st Generation/7th Generation A-series/Athlon X4 Processors"

Somewhere in all that gibberish I see both 1st and 2nd gen Ryzen and I'm fairly sure the 2600X is one of those two?

FURTHER UPDATE: Some older models of this mobo require a bios update to work with Ryzen 2*** processors, which in turn requires hooking up an already-compatible processor. This may preclude getting the cheap NIB one from eBay as it was probably built and bought before that BIOS became standard issue.

Also:

"*3 Due to AMD Ryzen™ Processor limitation, More than DDR4-2666 is supported by one DIMM per channel only"

Would it be possible to downgrade the memory to 2666 and still have everything work? Also, does G.Skill Aegis work with the ROG Strix B350-F? Asus makes their QVL lists incredibly difficult to find.

FURTHER UPDATE: Trying to work back and forth between Asus QVLs and PCPartPicker is a real pain (especially when they're open on two different computers) as their list of approved memory model numbers is tiny and never seems to include the cheaper models of memory.

 

2600X is 2nd gen Ryzen, in few months there will be 3rd gen Ryzen which is rumored to be huge improvement.

For memory limitation, I must say I don't have any idea of, first time I read about such, but I have not played with AMD bits since Athlon 64.

I wonder if that is limitation in 1st gen Ryzen or also in 2nd gen Ryzen, it would sound logical that running memory at 2666 would get around the limitation, but not sure. Lowering memory clocks would allow them to run with tighter timing and if it allows dual channel usage, it might give better performance increase than higher clock speed.

However also I have heard that Ryzen needs high memory speeds, so is performance increase of higher clock speed still greater? Sadly I don't have answers, but those obviously are aspects that need answers.

Hardforums or Tomshardware might have best answer for memory compatibility, or you could send mail to Asus support, that would test their service too.

Not all memory is tested by them, sometimes even what they have tested is bit conservative, but then in some cases some memory just refuses to work. For some Trident-Z has given good results, they had some AMD specific model too, but can't remember name.

 

I was doing some other testing with HWInfo64 and took this kind of screenshot, should of reset values after level had loaded so those extra 100% max would not confuse, but wonderful thing of 0.15 and Italy is how it is using big more threads than earlier game versions, still hitting core limits, 1060 might be able to do this too, not sure if on 1080p resolution though as this is high graphics and ssao on.
GPU is working only half here though as CPU is at limit, not all threads of CPU though, so this is why single core performance is needed on highest graphics:


Lowering graphics quality increases FPS, higher FPS works GPU more, so GPU load is not changing when changing graphics because of that, CPU remains limiting factor though, but with settings I posted earlier I can get well over 70fps, with nothing else running on computer.

With more optimization to game, I guess CPU limit decreases and that will allow more cars, more people to get higher framerates and more typical gains from hardware upgrades.

 

I just downloaded the HWInfo and I have no clue of what's what... lol... my system is this but I can't understand half of what is here:

And I'm very happy with my Rayzen, my first gaming computer had a i5 4670 together with a gtx1050ti and I was able to play BeamNg, but at 1080p of course, then I get a new computer (the one I have now) , first I had a RX580 and I decided to upgrade it due to the problems with the drivers and BeamNg and I noticed the difference between that and the 1080, I'm very satisfied!
My advice to @Shotgun Chuck is if you can just get something that it may be overkilled, it will be cheaper than not to go through the steps and buying one and later realize that you want more!, the same I did with my wheel, starts with thrustmaster T-150 and jump to a T-300 a few months later, always losing money selling the old stuff... ... the story of my life... lol

I'll try to run the game with this program if I can figure it out and i'll post a screenshot.

 

I wrote some scribbling on screenshot that explain important part, 4K is really nice, so much space to write on


I'm having issue with HWInfo where it makes my computer randomly shut off like pulling cord out of wall socket, it is really random and difficult to diagnose, but creator of software gave me some tips how to find out which function/feature is causing the issue, so hopefully I get it running properly soon enough.

When I get it running, I try to make tutorial how to use it to find out more about performance limits of system, which would be helpful anyone looking to improve performance of their system, either by upgrading hardware or changing settings.

One thing you can do is to go to settings, then hide parts that are not so important, clock speeds and utilization are mostly what is needed, after that you can increase polling rate, by default software uses 2000ms, but with 100ms you see much more, you can also right click thread that has high usage and then choose graph, which you can resize to next of your game, but you need to run game in windowed mode then.
However using 100ms polling rate causes quite bit of CPU usage by HWInfo, so you need to first know which thread is having high usage, then have HWInfo running at 100ms polling rate and see that it is not ending up using high usage thread which can lead to false readings, but usually such does not happen, one has to be careful though.

Something like 90-100% is range where CPU limited happens, 100ms is still bit slow to pick up all 100% spikes, but looking into GPU utilization can then give verification.

It is only tool, it does not really give direct answers, but helps to find out where answers might be.

Now each game is then different, for some game different CPU and GPU pairing works better than for some other, so any generalization of some CPU matching some GPU is going to be off.

Then one thing, for my system, when I start BeamNG heavy CPU utilization thread sets to usually #3 or #5 thread, but I had one bios version, where it was jumping from thread to another, also some systems have such behavior, I have no idea if Ryzen is like that, but at least with 8086K behavior was similar to 6700, two weeks or so and I might have motherboard for 8086K so then can do more testing, maybe, unless useless MB did blow CPU too which would be wonderful battle against windmills again.


Also very good info from Nadeox, seems that no manufacturer is quite immune to VRM curse that is making hardware upgrading more challenging than needed. Was it Firestone that got into some manufacturing scandal back into old days? This VRM rubbish starts to appear similar fiasco.

 

I did test bit of recording to HDD, it has not been defragmented for a year and is totally full, 1TB budget drive, not very fast. There was no trouble at gridmap, but on italy, there was more details moving, which meant higher amount of data written I believe, which in turn made recording quite choppy at times, especially when turning and at Italy driving straight is not really a thing...

I had Nvsync CBR 45000 H.264 or something I believe. With some settings and some HDD it might work though.

I was also amused how well game did run even I had all sort of software running, realtime animated 3D character overlay to video etc. Still 60fps, but had no dynamic reflections on. CPU did drop to 3.7Ghz though and was running at 50C at times, so it was working quite hard.

I was surprised how well HDD actually did cope with video recording, I think I'm going to try to find better settings and do little maintenance so perhaps I can get video recording to HDD enough good.

 

We are seriously consdering that B450 Tomahawk now, but can a Logitech G27 hook up to a USB 3.1 port?

 

USB 3.1 Gen 2 comes in both Type-A and Type-C varieties. There are also Type-C to Type-A converters available. I use one for my Thrustmaster TMX just fine.

 

USB ports are compatible with anything. The only real difference between USB 2.0, 3.0, 3.1 is transfer speeds.

 

Also the board is listed as having "no audio", which assume means no headphone/speaker hookups; however I also assume it would still be possible to plug in a sound card?

Also still does the BS with M.2 slots shutting down SATA ports; at different points the spec sheet says it has 2 SATA 6GB/sec ports, 4 SATA 6GB/sec ports, and then that the M.2. slots shut down SATA 5 and 6 ports when in use... can anyone translate that and tell me if it's actually going to be a problem?

Also, since only some of its USB 3.1 ports are the faster "second generation" type, does would a G27 benefit from being hooked up to the fastest ports or can that go to my USB hard drive for faster recording.

Does it have a network adapter to plug a router into?

 

I'm not sure what that means, as a picture of the board shows it clearly has rear audio jacks and a sound chip.

It means you have 6 SATA ports, but only 4 of them will work if you use an M.2 profile SSD. Unless you want to use 2 M.2 SSDs and 6 Drives, it won't be a problem

The G27 was designed before USB 3.1 even existed, and is meant to use USB 2.0. It'll work fine with anything 2.0 and up.

Looking at a picture, yes.

 

Roccat Juke is around 20 dollars or less, USB audio card that outperforms onboard audio easily. It is really good for it's price as it's software is very light too, but paying more gets fancier audio quality, which one may or may not hear. With Steelseries crystal clear microphone it is bit quiet to record voice though, I'm finding 15db amplification in recording software is needed, but it might be the headset too.

I have red USB 3.1 ports, I don't think that my ancient USB devices work with those, not sure if they should, USB 3.0 ports that are blue seem to work fine though.

Not sure why those 3.1 ports don't like to work, also one 3.0 port is broken, has gone broken for no reason, so who knows maybe those 3.1 ports have always been broken.

USB hubs help with lesser devices, plugging wheel to port on mainboard should be better though.

If board has USB 2.0 port, that is where you want to plug your wheel, works on 3.0 though, but I remember reading less latency with 2.0 ports in some cases.

Also you can get USB ports that plug into motherboard, if that motherboard has extra connectors, often motherboards have.

M2 uses PCI-E lanes, so does SATA, there is limited amount of them so in practice you get less SATA ports if you use M2 drive, there is no way around it really. Not sure if you need more than 2 SATA ports though, optical drives are not a thing anymore, so you can add two SSD drives or HDD and SSD drive.

Also you can get PCI-E card to add more SATA ports, motherboard probably has x4 PCI-E bus in addition to x16 one, that can be used at same time without dropping speed of x16 bus. That x4 bus uses different set of lanes than M2 and SATA ports, so that is why you can use it to expand SATA ports.

 

We've found another case but it only comes with one fan, with the ability to add four more later. Which is the better choice; a CPU cooler or an extra case fan?

As for M.2 and SATA issues, we are actually adding an optical drive as well, though we will only be using a single SSD and an external HDD to start.

 

CPU cooler, as long as you pick a case that has AIO mounting place at top of the case, ventilation of case will be fine, because roof is then just a mesh grid.

I think mine is called Deepcool Tesseract, it is quite low cost, but airflow is best that it actually can be, side panel has plenty of open mesh, top of the case has place for 2x AIO, so that is lot of open mesh, there is places for fans at front and back too, PSU air pickup is at bottom of the case and it did cost under 50 euros while having plenty of storage bays.

I don't need much case fans, there is two that will get cool air in, but none that exhaust as roof is so open that any warm air will disappear by natural convection flow.

I can run CPU cooling passive mostly as I have Macho Rev.B cooler (it is as good as some AIO units while costing half and being more silent), or could if stupid MB would allow 0rpm fans.

With case fans I go for Noctua NF-P12 which lasts long time and is quiet while still not most expensive, warranty is 6 years here, so those tend to last machines lifetime usually.

I probably will never get a case with solid roof again.

Oh and fans that come with the cases, I throw those usually away, rubbish most of the time, but then again I'm bit of snob in terms of airflow and noise, so my fanless PSU, CPU cooler and fans were about 300 euros alone which all you could get under 100 easily. Also some claim that CPU cooler that comes with Ryzen would be ok, however I don't know about that as I have not tested such, but if it is ok, then no need to necessarily buy CPU cooler first.

 

I do have to say, it will feel nice to have access to a new and better computer. After four years of waiting and some... unique circumstances that really should have motivated me to get a better computer before this, I'll finally be able to play BeamNG. The computer I'm posting this from... it couldn't even load the tech demo without puking. It's over 10 years old and it was a "school district special" to start with. I've been driving alone for 6 years now, wasn't even old enough to get a learner's permit when this thing came into my life. I seriously remember taking online courses and looking at lolcats on this thing. It's served well, is still functional, and will probably remain in my possession to escape the inherent restrictions of a shared computer, but it was time for an upgrade years ago.

(Meanwhile, the last computer I had that had a discrete GPU, had a 3dfx Voodoo3. I've still got that one too, and NFS High Stakes is still kind of fun once in a while.)

One thing people are saying is that you need to match your CPU speed and GPU speed to avoid bottlenecks, so is an Asus GTX 1060 (non ti) "Pheonix Fan Edition" (whatever that means) and a Ryzen 2600X still a well-matched combo from that perspective? I may have asked once before but I may have still been looking at a 1070 at that point.

 

I would like to call such matching needs rubbish, it stems from belief that CPU can't feed GPU or CPU is never utilized fully with weaker GPU.

It does not work like that, different games are very different in this and even different situations in games can change things completely upside down.

As long as your computer can maintain 60fps and you have vsync on to limit fps to 60fps, it has no any meaning whatsoever, hence I call it rubbish, you don't match CPU to GPU or GPU to CPU, you find fastest you can buy, you make sure CPU can handle the software and you set graphics options so that you are never limited by CPU or GPU and that gives best experience.

Difference between 1060 and 1070 is that you can use whatever settings you want without 1070 limiting performance, CPU will be limiting what options you can choose, but that is true with pretty much any CPU, until more optimizations come.

Also 1070 will be more future proof, 1060 will be slow in 2 years or so as all games develop further and people move to faster GPUs which allows games to become heavier.

Bottlenecks and need to match CPU and GPU are belief based nonsense by people who really don't understand how things work, as people like to go with easy route, it is easy generalization that may work on some cases, even with most games, with BeamNG nothing is normal though, this games performance and hardware limits are far more difficult to understand than most are willing to put effort in. Generalizations don't work with BeamNG.

 

Dumb question, some PSUs are listed as "12V"; I assume this is the maximum output voltage and they are capable of putting out less to components requiring less voltage?

Sorry for all the dumb questions I could probably find with more searching, but this is the first time I've really ever done this.

 

All PSUs provide all needed voltages, but different amount of amps to each voltage.

Then there are different size PSUs, you need PS2 if you get normal case, PSX I think was called for super small case.

 

Mid-tower case. The person I'm working with on this keeps gravitating towards EVGA Supernovas because of their high wattage-to-price ratio, how do I convince them that this is a bad idea? They were selling a 750W for $59.99 (!) which had 82% 5-star reviews out of about 4600, but the very few 1-stars were exactly what you said, going bad and destroying other components, including one guy who said it fried two mobos (and the instant he tried to turn them on, too!) That's a risk I would take only if I could be sure all the other components' warranties would cover damage caused by a malfunctioning PSU.