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Autobello Piccolina

Discussion in 'Official Content' started by gabester, Oct 3, 2018.

  1. ByteGuy

    ByteGuy
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    Sorry if this is a bit off topic but the Mini argument doesnt make sense not only for the reason you gave but also that when the Mini released it was an 850cc engine and this was the most popular option until the MK2 in 1967. Even then they sold the 850 until 1980 and the most popular option after 1967 was 998. The only minis to receive 1275's where the "Cooper models" which were not made by BMC they were racing/sports variants so we cant count them. It wasn't until the 1275 GT that the Mini got a 1275 from factory.

    My point is that most Minis were 850cc or 998cc during the 60s and thats in england, so it would be weird for the Autobello to have a bigger engine than most 60s British small cars.

    Edit: I myself always use the base level cars, i love them. In fact 90% of the fast variants i never use. Base models are awesome and give a real sense of realism to drive. Instead of flying off a cliff at 1000mph in a turbo-nitrous-jato thing.
    Im not hating, BeamNG is one of my favourite games, im just giving constructive criticism/my humble opinion:D
     
    #1121 ByteGuy, May 26, 2020
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
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  2. Cutlass

    Cutlass
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    we have the Civettalina mod, that as far as we should go
     
  3. pippoose14 2

    pippoose14 2
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    It is a build, irl
    --- Post updated ---
    boy
     
  4. DriftinCovet1987

    DriftinCovet1987
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    So, this car's also a bit of an "odd" one for size. I thought that it was Fiat 850-sized at first, but turns out that it's closer to a Hillman Imp in size and weight. For its class (and even for classes above it), the Pickle's a wide car - but it's still rather small.

    For reference:

    Most commonly compared to:

    *VW Beetle: 2.4m wheelbase. 4.08m long, 1.53m long, 800-840kg, 1.1L-1.6L OHV F4s

    *Fiat 600: 2.0m wheelbase, 3.22m long, 1.38m wide, 585kg, 633cc-843cc OHV L4s

    Cars of similar size and mechanical layout:

    *Renault 4CV: 2.05m wheelbase, 3.66m long, 1.43m wide, 620kg, 750cc OHV L4s

    *BMW 700: 2.12m wheelbase, 3.54m long, 1.48m wide, 640kg, 700cc OHV F2

    *Fiat 850 sedan: 2.03m wheelbase, 3.58m long, 1.43m wide, 670kg, 817cc-903cc OHV L4s

    *Hillman Imp: 2.08m wheelbase, 3.58m long, 1.52m wide, 725kg, 875cc-998cc SOHC L4s

    Autobello Piccolina: 2.3m wheelbase, 3.57m long, 1.58m wide, 730kg, 1.1L-1.3L OHV F4s

    The Piccolina's wheelbase is fine - the Renault 4L (3.66m long, 603cc-956cc L4s) had a 2.42m wheelbase (averaging both sides). The surprising thing is just how easy it would have been to turn the Piccolina into a Beetle-esque family car. Just extending the front and rear ends a little and stretching the wheelbase about 10-20 cm would have turned it into a very realistic Italian Beetle. It would've ended up quite close to the 1959 Fiat 1100 (2.34m wheelbase, 3.92m length, 1.46m width, 880kg) in everything but width.
     
    #1124 DriftinCovet1987, Jun 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
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  5. Pippy.drive14

    Pippy.drive14
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    I feel like the Pickle is bigger than a mini, maybe VW Type 1 sized? I honestly feel like it has many influences from a type 1.
     
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  6. andrzejserafin5

    andrzejserafin5
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    I really like old and small cars,this is best for me.
     
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  7. DriftinCovet1987

    DriftinCovet1987
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    So, to determine whether the "gameplay reasons" claim for not having smaller, less-powerful engines for the Piccolina is bogus, I decided to run the Piccolina 110 (the slowest official Piccolina, with 34 horsepower), my Autobelli 70 (a fair representation of a 900cc Piccolina, with 26 horsepower), and the Wentward Highway (the fastest official "ordinary" bus, with 350 horsepower) around five different tracks.

    I was driving on a keyboard for this experiment. I also have listed how I laid out each track (lap count, reverse/no reverse, rolling start/no rolling start) to allow people to recreate this themselves.

    I wanted to see how much slower the Autobelli would be than the Piccolina in multiple environments - and most importantly, if the Wentward could beat the Autobelli. And the results were...curious, to say the least.

    Industrial Racetrack Curved (2 laps, no reverse, no rolling start):

    Piccolina 110: 125.505 seconds
    screenshot_2020-08-20_17-50-46.jpg

    Autobelli 70: 128.033 seconds (+2.528 seconds, +2%)
    screenshot_2020-08-20_17-44-29.jpg

    Wentward Highway: 140.150 seconds (+14.645 seconds, +12%)
    screenshot_2020-08-20_08-26-35.jpg

    Industrial Mixed Perimeter (2 laps, reverse, rolling start):

    Piccolina 110: 115.739 seconds
    screenshot_2020-08-20_18-20-11.jpg

    Autobelli 70: 120.659 seconds (+4.920 seconds, +4%)
    screenshot_2020-08-20_18-11-54.jpg

    Wentward Highway: 135.800 seconds (+15.061 seconds, +17%)
    screenshot_2020-08-20_08-13-26.jpg

    Utah Asphalt Hillclimb (no reverse, no rolling start):

    Piccolina 110: 94.822 seconds
    screenshot_2020-08-20_18-26-39.jpg

    Autobelli 70: 115.557 seconds (+20.735 seconds, +22%)
    screenshot_2020-08-20_18-36-00.jpg

    Wentward Highway: 130.500 seconds (+35.678 seconds, +38%)
    screenshot_2020-08-20_07-59-01.jpg

    JRI Dirt Stage 2 (no reverse, no rolling start):

    Piccolina 110: 141.508 seconds
    screenshot_2020-08-21_11-11-32.jpg

    Autobelli 70: 153.188 seconds (+11.680 seconds, +8%)
    screenshot_2020-08-20_00-07-11.jpg

    Wentward Highway: 165.750 seconds (+24.242 seconds, +17%)
    screenshot_2020-08-20_18-43-08.jpg


    WCA Drag Strip (no reverse, no rolling start):

    Piccolina 110: 21.950 seconds

    screenshot_2020-08-20_08-06-30.jpg

    Autobelli 70: 24.400 seconds (+2.450 seconds, +11%)
    screenshot_2020-08-20_08-08-34.jpg

    Wentward Highway: 24.400 seconds (+2.450 seconds, +11%)
    screenshot_2020-08-21_10-57-34.jpg

    The only place where the Wentward Highway tied my Autobelli 70 was in the drag strip...and everywhere else, the Wentward Highway was at least ~10% slower. I know that these are racetracks, but I picked these circuits because there are plenty of rough roads, short acceleration bursts, long climbs, and tight corners to navigate in longer bus routes - and these tracks feature all of these elements.

    If you average how much slower the Autobelli 70 and Wentward Highway are, you get this:

    Autobelli 70: (2% + 4% + 21% + 8% + 11%) / 5 = 9.2%

    Wentward Highway: (12% + 17% + 38% + 17% + 11%) / 5 = 19%

    How is a smaller engine option 9% slower than the Piccolina 110 "painfully slow" and "not added for gameplay reasons", while a bus 19% slower than the Piccolina 110 receives its own game mode that you can't use any other car for?

    And the thing is...you devs have damaged gameplay for the sake of realism many times before, hurting the majority of your fanbase for the few realism snobs (like myself).

    *0.8's powertrain update broke hundreds of mods (RIP Auriga Heron) for the sake of powertrain realism, but it did benefit off-roaders significantly with the ability to select 4WD modes and locking diffs, so many people were still okay with it.

    *0.10's shift delays harmed keyboard and gamepad users' gameplay by making it harder to drift and race competitively. This was done for the sake of realism - but there was huge backlash and a few keyboard/gamepad users ended up leaving the game altogether. I'm still not quite sure who benefits from these shift delays, because even the most obsessive realism nuts didn't really care about shift delays, as far as I know.

    *0.11's overtorque damage broke many mods and hurt gameplay for casuals to throw realism fans a fun bone. This also received huge backlash from casual players - but it did have quite a few supporters, who enjoyed being able to realistically blow up their engines. And it was easy to negate with simple mods and (in later updates) sturdier official engine blocks.

    *0.12's addition of bus stops hurt gameplay for casuals by putting random bus stops that they now have to avoid while drifting or racing. This was done for the sake of realism - and while it does help, I'm not sure if it helps enough when street signs are still missing from the game. The new Hustle and Bustle campaign seems almost entirely geared for gameplay fans, but it was the last campaign we got - and with such a painfully slow vehicle, it ends up being a bit...dull.

    *0.14, 0.16, and 0.17's remodelings of the SBR4, H-Series, Roamer, Covet, Sunburst, 800 Series, Moonhawk, LeGran, '88 Pessima, and Miramar broke hundreds of mods that casuals enjoyed (RIP Miramar Z Coupe) for the sake of realism. They've still been one of the more controversial aspects of Beam's recent updates. Some think that many of these updates were a step backwards for realism, especially the Moonhawk's '90s-esque roundedness.

    *0.19's rework of the clutch assist to make launching manuals more realistic significantly hurt gameplay for keyboard users - and was so hated by many people that it ended up being revised in a hotfix. I don't think anyone was asking for their manual cars to be even harder to drive on a keyboard when they were already hard enough.

    Why are these updates done to the game for the sake of realism fans, but the Piccolina doesn't get a simple and more realistic 900cc engine option - that would affect zero casuals, break zero mods, take almost no time to make and maintain, and significantly improve the driving experience for realism fans - for "gameplay reasons"?

    And just because the Piccolina is "mechanically based on the Beetle" doesn't mean it can't get a smaller engine option. Beam's universe is free-form; perhaps Autobello had a 900cc version as a cheaper option to entice buyers into their dealerships; a P90 would serve as the "price leader" (both for Autobello and for the player), acting as the cheapest possible way to get a Piccolina. It wouldn't be fast, but it would be cheap - and that would hugely help in career mode by giving poorer players the option to buy the Piccolina earlier.
     
    #1127 DriftinCovet1987, Aug 21, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2020
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  8. ByteGuy

    ByteGuy
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    You are doing great work, well done :D
     
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  9. default0.0player

    default0.0player
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    Another problem is NERFING the S gear on modern automatics. The S gear should be using highest upshift and downshift RPM regardless of throttle application. After the 0.19 update the S gear is very similiar to D, making it pratically useless in game. Of course I can use M gear for racing but keyboard players and gamepad players w/o shift paddles will hurt by the nerfing of S gear.
     
  10. Diamondback

    Diamondback
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    Please don't try to make your opinions look like facts. I understand that you personally would like to have S mode work differently, but please understand that we are not sitting here rolling dice in order to decide how these things should work.
     
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  11. DriftinCovet1987

    DriftinCovet1987
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    Default has a bit of a point here; the nerfing of the S mode for realism (while hurting gameplay) is one of many examples of the...confusing focus of the recent development of BeamNG.

    You might have a plan in mind, but to quite a lot of people, it seems like you're just winging it with what gets to be realistic (less-sticky drag tires, overtorque damage, and shift delays that make driving harder for keyboard/gamepad-using casuals) and what doesn't (Autobello engine displacements, '85 D-Series front end, Moonhawk L6 engine power).

    This constant flipping back-and-forth between gameplay and realism could lead some to question where development is supposed to be going. We paid to beta-test this game; some of us want to know what this game is supposed to be about (partially to give more relevant feedback; partially to get a better understanding of what to expect in career mode).

    It's odd to me that the Autobello is given larger and more powerful engines for "gameplay reasons" (which, as I prove here, isn't exactly a strong statement)...

    ...while the Wentward - which has its own bus mode and campaign - is stuck at 350 horsepower in its fastest factory configuration. It's extremely difficult to crack 100 mph in a Wentward without JATO rockets, a downhill, or a body removal. You toss aside the Piccolina 90 for being 10% slower than the Piccolina 110, while the only official vehicle players can use on a whole game mode is a bus 20% slower than the Piccolina 110.

    If you were so concerned about gameplay that you had to make the slowest Piccolina slightly faster, why didn't you make the Wentward faster to make bus routes and the Hustle and Bustle campaign easier and more enjoyable for casuals?

    I can actually understand catering to the casuals in a vehicle that's primarily around gameplay - that's why it has JATO rockets - but JATO rockets are more for drag racing, and they only last for a short while. A bigger turbo for the TCM) would be the same as adding a smaller engine to Piccolina, only in reverse - adding significantly more to gameplay, while slightly adding to realism.

    I can tune my Autobelli 700cc engine to get 80 horsepower reliably with stock tuning parts...
    screenshot_2020-08-25_18-37-15.jpg

    ..and 150 horsepower for a short while. It's plenty tunable for career mode.
    screenshot_2020-08-25_18-35-39.jpg screenshot_2020-08-25_18-36-22.jpg
     
    #1131 DriftinCovet1987, Aug 26, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
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  12. Diamondback

    Diamondback
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    Not sure if you noticed, but you are intermixing two things here: Accuracies linked to physics and content decisions. They have nothing to do with each other.
    I've said it before, we are not an automobile history simulator, we do not have the goal of 100% replicating whatever happened in the realworld automative market.
     
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  13. _Diamond_Coal_

    _Diamond_Coal_
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    do you plan fixing this?
     
  14. GearHead1

    GearHead1
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    Am I the only one remembering this with rear-hinged doors?
     
  15. ManfredE3

    ManfredE3
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    The ones with model years '57-'63 do, the mid and late facelifts have standard doors
     
  16. GearHead1

    GearHead1
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    thx
     
  17. Uzthiudiskazspreko

    Uzthiudiskazspreko
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    Yea, it can. I can list Land where that can happen and be found: North America, South America, North Korea, South Korea, Japan (mostly older ones and on some newer ones), Down Under (in mostly older ones), New Zealand (blinkers can be mixed with parking lights/headlights), China (blinkers can be mixed with parking lights/headlights), Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Burma, Middle East, Africa, and some others that I have missed.
     
  18. _Diamond_Coal_

    _Diamond_Coal_
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    Yes, but Piccolina is European (Italian) car and i doubt that its exported to countries you listed
     
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  19. FLyInG 2 YoUr SoUL

    FLyInG 2 YoUr SoUL
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    It could have been exported, but still, these countries would get market-specific variants.
     
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  20. SuperShep1

    SuperShep1
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    the fiat 500 was available in the us, the only one(s) that i think wouldnt be exported would be korea
     
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