BeamNG Realistic Community Lore Project.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MrAnnoyingDude, Sep 28, 2019.

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What should AMM's Australian cars be called?

  1. Gavril

    5 vote(s)
    9.3%
  2. Beaufort

    47 vote(s)
    87.0%
  3. Other name (post in the thread)

    2 vote(s)
    3.7%
  1. MrAnnoyingDude

    MrAnnoyingDude
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    For some time, I've been thinking about a thread where the members of our community would be able to discuss their ideas for things that aren't in the game itself, so I created this thread.

    Here, you can suggest any ideas for manufacturers, cars, engines, elements of the in-game world, that you have.

    Rules:
    1. My first post will also be a "hub post", in which the main lore ideas of the thread will be shown. Anyone can suggest things that can be added to it, or changed in it, whether it's facts or fanmade names.
    2. You have to give realistic (i.e. possible in our world, but not necessarily based on it) ideas that will also play along with official dev-made content.
    3. If you find an idea not realistic, object to it. I have the same right to objection. However, objection to posters' ideas must be based on argumentation grounded in our world's history, automotive or otherwise.
    4. If two contradictory, but realistic, ideas are in the thread, the higher-rated one will be the one ending up in the OP.
    5. I will try to be impartial, unbiased and rapid in my editing. However, this is still a one-man operation, and therefore there will be delays and biases present - you can, though, try to diminish them by writing complete sections for the OP by yourself.
    6. The fact that a certain section is very short does not mean that it won't be expanded on in the future.

    Now, on to the fan lore:

    Cars (WIP):
    Associated Motor Manufacturing was founded in 1918 after Gavril, which already owned Sallars and Burnside, acquired Bolger and Bruckell. They owned a variety of brands, but are best known for their historical "big five": Gavril, (insert name), Burnside, (insert name) and Bolger, as well as the European subsidiary.

    After years in the global top spot, started with the phenomenal sales of the Gavril Series F (1911-1925), they started slipping in the 70s and are far from #1 nowadays.
    A mass-market global automaker of US origin.
    AMM's idea for a more youthful brand, closed in 2010.
    A midrange carmaker of US origin. The oldest carmaker in North America, active between 1893 and 1985.
    The United States' other big carmaker. Less engineering prowess than AMM, but makes up for it with ingenuity and durability.

    ETK is one of the largest luxury car companies in the world, as well as the owner of (insert English ultra-luxury carmaker).

    An Italian supercar manufacturer that has existed since 1949, and was independent until 1986, when high development costs (Bolide and Bolide Corse costs getting above budget) forced their sale to Bruckell. Five years later, Autobello bought the company.

    In 2011, Autobello, touched by the financial crisis and emissions scandal, sold their stock in Civetta to an international consortium, and the brand went independent.
    A low-volume company making fibreglass/plastic sports cars after reaching into Gavril's parts bin. Was practically inactive between 2004 and 2016, now it's back in action

    Hirochi was founded in 1886 by Hirayama Hiroji, as a manufaturer of musical instruments. Their factory was retooled in WW2 for the production of aeroplanes, and after being destroyed in the war, it was rebuilt for the production of bicycles, mopeds and motorcycles.

    The company's first car, the Hiroji KR360 (Keijidosha,rear engined,360cc) was unveiled in 1960, and was produced until 1967. it had a water cooled, rear mounted, 2-stroke flat twin engine, 2 doors and 4 seats.

    In 1965, the KR360 was joined by the R600. It was based on a longer and wider verison of the same platform, but had a 600 cc flat-4 engine. Two years later, the company unveiled the F800/F1000, a front-wheel-drive compact with a development of their flat-four, and the SBR600/CR600, a rear-engined shooting brake/roadster.
    A modern luxury electric car brand, known for their iS5 and iS6 crossovers, and iR9 hypercar.

    AMM's Australian subsidiary. Recently stripped of its own production capabilities.

    Non-carmakers (waiting for ideas):

    The world (waiting for ideas):


    Especially waiting for:

    • Ideas concerning the world, its history (also political events)- and maps,
    • Ideas concerning non-automakers,
    • Ideas for all-new or unstarted carmakers.
    • Ideas concerning the second big US automaker, as well as Germany's mass-market company and the smaller Japanese company.
    Thanks to @Youngtimer, @CaptainZoll, @Ytrewq, @Shotgun Chuck and @SergentFido for some of their ideas!
    --- Post updated ---
    Question time:

    1. Should AMM's Australian cars be Gavrils, or some other brand?

    2. Should Sweden have two carmakers (one closer to Volvo, one closer to Saab) or one?

    3. What do you think about the idea of European cars being slightly smaller until the 80s (explaining the Piccolina and I-Series' small size), but having had a growth spurt since then?
     
    #1 MrAnnoyingDude, Sep 28, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
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  2. Shotgun Chuck

    Shotgun Chuck
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    Why do you have Gavril and Soliad under the same parent company? Comments from the devs have indicated that the Soliad Wendover will share engines with the Bruckell LeGran, so those two brands are likely under the same company, however no Bruckell has ever shared anything with any Gavril.

    I have had some ideas for lore before; I'll try to dump them here.

    Gavril: A company of contradictions, obviously brimming with engineering talent but perpetually unable to get on a hot streak. Sometimes they're embarrassing themselves with blatant me-tooing and a side of industrial espionage (Vendetta, or just plain out-of-touch corporate incompetence with a hypothetical second-generation Vendetta), sometimes they're leading the charge with innovative and forward-thinking designs (220 HP from a 4.5L pickup truck V8 in 1988, also 330HP AWD sports truck in 1988). I believe a good result from Kee Automation's "Brick Restoration" scenario would fit well as an example of the latter (also perfectly timed vis-a-vis Vendetta) and could possibly provide a platform for their modern 4.5L and 5.5L V8s to debut in later in its hypothetical lifespan. Makes a full line, from compact to full-size with SUVs, trucks, and mini- and full-size vans too. (RL: The company as it sits in the present day is inspired by Ford, but replacing the Pinto scandal with a disastrous Vendetta lifespan and giving its trucks the Modular V8 about 10 years earlier. The "technologically innovative but somehow can't find its own butt with both hands" aspect, however, is pure GM.)

    Burnside: Midlevel luxury subsidiary of Gavril, hawking dolled-up versions of standard Gavrils. The cars are reasonably competent and offer good value-for-money but are consistently plagued by delusions of grandeur. In the pre-fuel-crisis days they had a well-established place in the market and many loyal customers, but these days the suits in charge never seem able to figure out why they can't steal customers from ETK. (RL: Buick, Oldsmobile, Mercury, really any midlevel American "discount luxury" brand, and maybe a little Cadillac as well.)

    Bruckell: Gavril's chief competitor. Their cars are known to be quite ordinary bordering on stodgy, but are widely credited by those who care with high levels of tuneability and abuse tolerance. Most buyers are payment shoppers who couldn't afford anything else. Like Gavril, they do their best to cover every segment of the market. Trim nomenclature uses Sport for top-engine sport versions, Sprint for sports packages combined with middle-of-the-road engines, and Special for high-output limited editions. (RL: Mostly Chevrolet with a little Buick.)

    Soliad: Soliad is to Bruckell as Burnside is to Gavril, except that where Burnside focuses on luxury, Soliad focuses on sportiness. In the 60s they were unstoppable, but regulations and corporate incompetence have taken their toll since; still, despite the "overpriced cruddy Bruckell" stain on their image, their cars usually do sport significant suspension improvements relative to Bruckell base material and are about as fun-to-drive as is possible when you're adapting overweight comfort-oriented FWDs. The brand has a little more of a history in places like Canada and Europe where the label was frequently used to sell more-pedestrian Bruckells as well. (RL: Pontiac, if it were still alive.)

    Ibishu: Once king of the track everywhere but America, now king of theft statistics in America. They've been catering to payment shoppers since at least the mid-1990s, but in the minds of enthusiasts they still ride high on the now-ancient image boost of mythical GTz unicorns. Current products are bloated also-rans emblematic of everything wrong with modern car design, which, of course, is exactly why they sell. Other than the Hopper, they haven't really bothered with light trucks in the US, but they have worked with Gavril to sell a line of pickups and vans in non-North-American markets, in the process developing an unusual level of diesel knowledge which has in turn been recently solicited by Gavril. (RL: Honda, if they sold pickup trucks in Europe and developing markets, plus a little Isuzu on the diesel front.)

    Hirochi: A manufacturer in flux, caught between the sharp, sporty cars it has a reputation for making and the bloated, tech-encrusted near-luxury pretenders it wants to. Their products are well known for high levels of quality and polish, but now the price is starting to increase accordingly. Most aren't really aware of it, but they are a very old company with fingers in many pies, and in particular have been making musical instruments for longer than they've been making cars. There seems to be some sharing of knowledge between their automotive and musical operations, as their cars have historically been known for very pleasant exhaust notes. (RL: Mazda + Yamaha.)

    Civetta: The automotive equivalent of Nietzsche's "emotional man"; their cars are amazing to drive... on the two non-consecutive days per month that they actually run. Their main purpose in life seems to be providing kids with something to dream about while reminding adults why no one buys Italian cars anymore. They have worked with Autobello during especialy rough patches but now prefer to pretend that never happened. (RL: Ferrari + Lamborghini.)

    Autobello: The maker of Italy's original cheap car is still there... and just in case you forget, their name is frequently found in a nice, easy-to-remember place at the bottom of comparison tests and reliability surveys. They still have some success in Europe, but recently have been floundering around the North American market, trying unsuccessfully to paper over old engineering and Italian reliability with appeals to a romanticized image of urban Italy. (RL: Fiat.)

    ETK: Back in their heyday, ownership of an ETK was a surefire sign of an obnoxious yuppie. Nowadays, their cars from this period have had their fun-to-drive quotient greatly exaggerated in the collective enthusiast unconscious, and as such are treated as objects of veneration despite not really deserving to be. Their current models are more overtly sporty than ever, but are too efficient, too bloated, too well-engineered, and just plain too freakin' German to really qualify as enthusiast cars; their awful-sounding 2.0T I4 with the by-now-usual artifically-flattened torque curve is a perfect example. (RL: BMW, but with a far-less-illustrious past, and possibly a bit of Mercedes-Benz thrown in.)

    Wentward: Other than the few people who obsess over the machines of public transportation, no one really knows who they are... and they would probably like to keep it this way, since the only memories most people would be able to associate with their brand are being surrounded by a meth-head, a coughing alpaca flu sufferer, and a 90dB cell phone yakker on their way to an underpaid job they hate. Tends to use Gavril running gear.
     
    #2 Shotgun Chuck, Sep 29, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
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  3. CaptainZoll

    CaptainZoll
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    considering that the wendover is apparently going to share engines with the legran, shouldn't soliad be put under the same subsidiary as bruckell?

    also, I would suggest making the aussie AMMs "beauforts", as that name has already been used a bit.

    Also,
    Hirochi was founded in 1886 by Hirayama Hiroji, as a manufaturer of musical instruments. their factory was retooled in WW2 for the production of aeroplanes, and after being destroyed in the war, was rebuilt larger than before.

    The company's first car, the Hiroji KR360 (Keijidosha,rear engined,360cc) was unveiled in 1960, and was produced until 1967. it had a water cooled, rear mounted, 2 stroke flat twin engine, 2 doors and 4 seats.

    At this point, the business was split, with the car manfacturer being renamed to hirochi (in hope of appealing to a western audience) and the musical instrument manufacturer retained the hiroji name, as it does to this day.

    the KR360 was restyled in 1967, and an 800cc, long wheelbase "shooting brake" version was introduced for export markets, as well as a cabriolet version, named the SBR800 and CR800 respectively.
    Antonio civetta was born in Casteletto, Italy, in 1900.
    his company, Civetta Automobili S.P.A. was founded in 1954, out of a workshop in Norte, Italy. His first car, named simply #001, though referred to as "the widowmaker" had a 2000cc V12, and was built on a spaceframe chassis. Civetta intended to enter it in the "24h of Bremen" endurance race (like Le Mans), though his test driver found that the car had severe handling issues, famously shouting "L'auto slitta come sul ghiaccio!" and storming off.
    later, during the 1960s, gavril was set up to buy civetta, though antonio pulled out, so Gavril planned to take out revenge on civetta, by beating them at the 24h of Bremen. for this, gavril designed the MZ Mk1, and they were succesful at defeating civetta. (*cough* ford vs ferrari)
    antonio civetta sold the company in 1987, after the company hit financial trouble, and after changing hands between multiple investors, eventually landed in the hands of Autobello.
     
    #3 CaptainZoll, Sep 29, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
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  4. Shotgun Chuck

    Shotgun Chuck
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    I like the idea of explaining the SBR4 as a descendant of a cruddy little Kei car but that car itself is just "Subaru 360 with the badges taped over". Same with Civetta/Gavril merger. The manufacturers in BeamNG can take cues from real-life manufacturers but should not be outright renames of them. Granted the Hirochi KR360 could probably slide as there's precious little else that would be practical to build in postwar Japan.
     
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  5. CaptainZoll

    CaptainZoll
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    my idea was that the first KR360 is a combination of the subaru 360 and the mazda r360, woth mechanically and in styling and the SBR800 would be some weird combination of a honda s5/6/800, with a bit of porsche 356 thrown in.
    as for the gavril/civetta thing, I kind of just wanted to include a predecessor for the gavril MZ2 from ror, though I agree that the story could do with some modification.
     
  6. MrAnnoyingDude

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    Well, by 1960 Japanese manufacturing was building various sorts of cars, from kei trucks, to executive sedans, to relatively large pickup trucks.
    Although a starting company, like Hirochi, would probably devote its time to kei cars.

    I generally like it, but:

    1. The piano is actually badged as "Hirochi", not "Hiroji".

    2. It's unlikely that the Hirochi sports car would start at 800cc - smaller displacement versions, like 500 or 600cc, would probably be first.

    3. This may be too personal, but could Civetta start a little bit earlier? I already made an Automation Civetta from 1953.
    I'd suggest a starting date of ~1950.

    4. Civetta likely wouldn't go back down to V8s after making V12s, so it's likely that their first car would have a V12.

    5. Bremen shouldn't be used, as Beam uses fictional city and town names.

    Some things I would add:

    - The SBR4 had a similar story as the Porsche 356/911 - from a lengthened economy car, to a climbing-in-level sports car with an ever-growing number of options.

    - In the 1960s meantime, Hirochi also made an 800cc/1000cc compact around 1966. Not the Sunburst, though. (F800/F1000?).

    - Civetta's financial troubles weren't just caused by its low-volume nature, but also by the costs of develpoing the Bolide Corse.
    --- Post updated ---
    Also, I just haven't got down to making Bruckell.
     
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  7. Shotgun Chuck

    Shotgun Chuck
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    The Bolide had a... troubled development. Suspension and drivetrain gave the engineers no end of trouble and early 390 GTR prototypes would suffer severe axle tramp under hard acceleration. In some cases this was so severe that body panel shaking would be visible to the naked eye. Eventually, the problem was solved, and despite this "shaky" beginning targa and even convertible versions were eventually released.

    The Bruckell Moonhawk is apparently a midsize; the Bruckell LeGran is a later-decade midsize that apparently came out of nowhere. I propose to have LeGran become a trim level of Moonhawk, with vinyl roof, opera windows, and any other 1970s pseudo-luxury cheese you can think of (remember Bruckell doesn't have a luxury subsidiary yet).

    If Bruckell were to have continued financial struggles from the 1970s on, that would explain both AR162b's old mod that runs the Moonhawk through at least 1981 (LeGran starts 1984, but to still be using the Moonhawk design in 1983 would be ridiculous) and the infamous Bruckell Road Cruiser - especially if the BRC were retconned to use Bruckell instead of Gavril engines. So, possible that there might have been some kind of awkward "half-downsized" Moonhawk/LeGran for 82-83 only which soaked up money, didn't sell well, and generally made Bruckell's financial shape even worse.
     
    #7 Shotgun Chuck, Sep 29, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
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  8. MrAnnoyingDude

    MrAnnoyingDude
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    Based on the fact that Bruckell uses the same V8 design as Gavril and Burnside, and that both Gavril and Bruckell have highly-GM-based designs, it's more likely that they are just one company.

    Also, the Moonhawk and LeGran are based on real cars that succeeded each other - the '73-'77 and '82-'88 GM A-Body midsizers.
    There was even a "half-downsized one" of them, and it was a big success - the '78-'82 A-Body even had one of its versions, the Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme, top the 1978 US new car sales chart.

    The Road Cruiser is a mod, and as such does not have to overpower other fan lore.

    As for the LeGran-Moonhawk relation, I think that the LeGran is more like the Century (by virtue of being an FWD sedan), so the 'Hawk is the more prestigious Regal.
    --- Post updated ---
    As for the source of Gavril and Bruckell's part sharing:


    The old big-block V8 will be shared between Gavril, Burnside and Bruckell.
     
  9. Shotgun Chuck

    Shotgun Chuck
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    Counterpoint: Bruckell's engine has a unique displacement (378ci) which no Gavril has had.

    It's very possible that this was done to save on development resources. If you can have one main engine model and then change accessories for each car, then the whole package becomes easier to take care of and still looks different enough between cars that most people won't notice. Though annoyingly, this may indicate that "deeper" engine tuning is not planned to be a part of the game at any point.
     
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  10. MrAnnoyingDude

    MrAnnoyingDude
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    My theory is that the "premium" cars, like the Moonhawk, received their own version with a bigger displacement to help mask the fact that the Soliads, Burnsides and Bruckells had the same engine as Gavrils.
    --- Post updated ---
    What do you mean with these statements, or the Vendetta stuff?

    I think that those motors are more like the Gen II Chevy small-blocks, both based on details like the head cover shape, and the availabillity of both the 4.5 and 5.5 in the GM (the Crown Vic only had the 4.6, while the Caprice had both the 4.3 and the 5.7).
    What do you mean by "disastrous"?

    Burnside is now likely just as dead as the real-life Oldsmobile, Mercury and DeSoto. I suggest its death somewhere in the 80s, during an AMM corporate reorganisation.

    I explained where Bruckell likely sits, but where did the Sprint designation come from?

     
    #10 MrAnnoyingDude, Sep 29, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
  11. TubroTerra

    TubroTerra
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    Here is My Fan Idea Of Gavril I will submit a Non Automaker Brand Later :)
    pOOR.png

    Gavril Industries

    Firewood Stock:GVR

    Gavril Is American Industrial Company Based On Firewood,Maine It Makes Cars,Trucks,Buses,Work Equipment,Farming Tools,Tractors.
    Founed In 1897 By Henry Alexander Gavril,He Produced Many Farm Tools,Soon Went to Make Cars,Trucks.
    After The WW2 They Grew In Size Buying Burnside,Wentward.
    Today Gavril Is Largest US Company,Worth at $932,000,000

    Brands
    :Gavril Founded In 1897 Today The Biggest US Automaker.
    :Burnside Oldest automaker In US Founded In 1867 Closed Down In 1985 Only to Reopen In 2001.
    :Titan Truck Maker,Founed in 1934
    :Wentward Bus,Tractors,Tech Company.
    :Mozdo Farming,Tractors Maker
    Former Brands
    Delta:German Conglomerate Makes Everyday Stuff Owned From 1899-2016.
    Subsidiary's
    :Gavril Europe Founded In 1901 Europe Largest Company,Based in Paris.
    :Gavril Latin America,Founded In 1967 Brazil's Largest Company.
    :Gavril-Dongifg China Partnership Founded in 1997.
    :Gavril Asia-Based in Mumbai,Asia's Largest Group.
    Former Subsidiary's
    Gavril GmBh-German Owned Subsidiary Now Gone,(1899-2016)
    Gavril Trucks-Folded in 2000.
    ----------------------------------
    Sorry for Poor Logo,Lore In A Way :(
     
  12. CaptainZoll

    CaptainZoll
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    I don't think wentward would be owned by gavril, I feel as though they would likely be a privately owned belasco based coachbuilder, that simply uses gavril mechanical parts, as is common with a lot of real life bus coachbuilders.
    isn't having 3 european subsidiaries a bit much?
    I like the idea of delta though, as it's kind of like opel.
    but I would suggest leaving the european chrysler/ford esque same-name-as-the-american-brand thing perhaps to bruckell.
    that's pretty old for an automaker, the benz motorwagen was in the 1880s. are you suggesting they could have their roots in coachbuilding?
     
    #12 CaptainZoll, Sep 29, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
  13. TubroTerra

    TubroTerra
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    For The wentward Side,During WW2 They Spent All of Tools at making Guns,After WW2 Wentward Had No chocie but to sell to Gavril.
    For The Euro Side It Sad story In 1950s They wanted to Make All The Euro Brands to One,However The Board Refused.
    For The Burnside side They Started as Saddle Maker.
     
  14. MrAnnoyingDude

    MrAnnoyingDude
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    I think Bruckell is part of AMM.

    However, I have an idea for a second American automaker. It would be mainly based on Chrysler Co. and AMC.

    Founded in 1934, following the Great Depression, the brand was a merger of 3 companies - a budget one (Studebaker+Willys+Plymouth), a midrange one (Dodge+Nash), another, slightly higher, one based on Hudson, DeSoto and Chrysler, and a high-end luxury one, like Packard or Imperial.

    The company tried to fight against Gavril, but they slowly had to cut costs. For 1959, the luxury brand lost engineering independence. For 1968, they canned the fullsize range (and the luxury brand) and started using one platform in three lengths (but just one width) for subcompacts, compacts and midsizers alike. 1976 saw the budget brand removed, and by 1982, the higher midrange one was gone too and the company was just restyles of Charmands (which bought the brand in 1987) and 4x4 pre-SUVs.

    However, in the early 00s the French owner started a 2005-on Chrysler-style revival, and brought some interesting cars onto the market, even reintroducting the luxury brand in 2010.

    What do you think?
     
  15. TubroTerra

    TubroTerra
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    Very Nice Expect That The Fact That Bruckell Is Kinda of Like Chrysler.
     
  16. MrAnnoyingDude

    MrAnnoyingDude
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    It's absolutely nothing like Chrysler.
     
  17. TubroTerra

    TubroTerra
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    Then What are based on?
     
  18. MrAnnoyingDude

    MrAnnoyingDude
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    Most probably Buick.
     
  19. TubroTerra

    TubroTerra
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    What do you of my fan lore theory :)
     
  20. MrAnnoyingDude

    MrAnnoyingDude
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    To be fair, I would be open to Bruckell not being part of the AMM, if not for the V8 engines overriding this piece of game lore. Sorry guys, this is lore for an already-established game.
    --- Post updated ---
    Quite a few issues with it, like the presence of multiple Euro Gavril subsidiaries (and why the main one housed in Paris? and why so old), Gavril's mysterious links with a company making "everyday stuff", Gavril India and Brazil being too big (and Brazil too young), Gavril owning a separate truck company...
     
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