Dynamic mud

Discussion in 'Ideas and Suggestions' started by Unster, May 3, 2021.

  1. Unster

    Unster
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    New mud texture looks great. Is there any plan to make the mud deformable and also make tires dirty? That would add so much to this incredible vehicle simulator. And give SnowRunner some much needed competition.
     

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  2. P_enta

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    both are possible but not very high priority.
     
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  3. Unster

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    Is that what the devs have stated, or it's just not high priority to you?

    I'd start with at least some dust on tires. There's plenty of dirt roads in BeamNG, but it's just weird when the tires stay dark & clean.
     
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  4. ThatCarGuyDownTheStreet

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    soooooooooo many threads on this exact topic. low priority
     
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  5. Zero

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    Before suggesting something, make sure it hasn't already been suggested.
    Look through the threads and use the search function.


    Also, I don't think it's as easy to implement as you might think.
    ManfredE3 explained this pretty well.

     
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  6. Unster

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    I did search and nothing came up. I vaguely remember this being discussed some years ago, but wanted to see if there has been a change in plan. Nobody said it was easy. I think the vehicle physics the game already has are more complicated than the ground deformation that ST/MR/SR have. It would be a nice addition, especially since a large part of BeamNG is offroad driving.

    Let's stop with the no no, too hard on performance, too hard to do, I only want the devs to work on my priorities negativity, shall we? It's the same crap I saw when someone suggested paint scratches. With that kind of attitude, the game won't progress anywhere, except a new vehicle and map here and there, just so that a few people can still play this game on their potato PC.
     
    #6 Unster, May 3, 2021
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
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  7. ThatCarGuyDownTheStreet

    ThatCarGuyDownTheStreet
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    you're delusional, dude
    no one here has said anything even remotely close to that, no one here has said what the devs should work on instead.
     
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  8. Unster

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    Right, only that they shouldn't work on this, because it's not your or someone else's priority. If you like a suggestion, leave a like. If you don't, just ignore it. Fair?
     
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  9. Agent_Y

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    Dude nobody ever said that they shouldn't work on this, can you even read??? The only thing that has been said is that the devs themselves stated it's low priority for them, in the thread that you can't find using the search bar for some reason.
     
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  10. P_enta

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    No i mean i doubt the devs have that high on their list right now
     
  11. ManfredE3

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    It's common knowledge that I absolutely hate Focus/Saber but love that franchise; I would love nothing more than for BeamNG to be able to compete with them so I could have a game in that genre from a company that I don't detest. But will power alone isn't going to program that it a way that the player base can actually make use of. They could brute force it and jbeam the entire ground and hope the tires don't eat themselves like they use to with car parts, but can you imagine how performance intensive a 16x16 jbeamed plane would be? Forget "potato PC" territory, I don't think there's any PC that could run that with traffic at decent FPS/graphics quality.

    I'm just a lay person but AFAIK Havok is the best engine out there for dynamic envornments... Unless we are counting Minecraft I guess... Torque3D, not so much.

    This isn't to say it can't be done, nearly everything other than VR that people have asked for and was thought to be impossible is either in game (traffic, walk mode), possible with third party applications (network multiplayer), or at least theoretically possible (console ports). But with career mode so close and multiplayer/VR/tire wear/customizable engine components all being high priority and similarly difficult, dynamic enviornments just have to be on the back burner. BeamNG is a medium sized company, there's only so much Dimondback/Estama/etc... can research at once.
     
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  12. Unster

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    That's all I wanted to know, i.e. what kind of priority it is for devs or what they've stated on the subject. I couldn't care less what priority it is to the individual players replying here, and it sounded like that's what they were talking about, and I think I'm right because like I said I've seen this before with the paint scratches discussion. Some people just don't want any changes and want the game frozen in time, so that their potato PC can keep up.
    --- Post updated ---
    I think it would be a poor choice to j-beam the ground. I'm pretty sure the runner games don't use Havoc for ground deformation either. Havoc is used there just for vehicle component & object physics. The ground deformation is Pavel's in-house algorithm and nothing to do with j-beams. It's been used since 2014 in Spintires which can actually run on a potato PC, so I don't buy this nonsense that it would make BeamNG unplayable, if done right.
     
  13. ManfredE3

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    I'm well aware that Pavel/Saber have their own proprietary sub-system for physics in the same way BeamNG has theirs, my point is that Pavel's games were made with that in mind and already have a physics/game engine that's perfect for what they do, while BeamNG doesn't.

    My point with brute force jbeaming the ground is that any simple solution isn't really going to work, and any advanced solution is just one more on the large list of things that the team would need to spend a lot of time researching to figure out.
     
  14. Unster

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    So what else is going on with BeamNG? Not much in the past year, other than a new vehicle here and there and some updates to old maps. There were the water splash particles added. That was nice. I'd like to see more improvements like that to the core of the game. Dirty tires & ground deformation would be right along that line too. Even the one-man Pure Rock Crawling game has some rudimentary ground deformation in one of the test maps. I think it's high time BeamNG catches up. The physics are excellent, but the visual details are kind of bare bones.
     
  15. Jer

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    A vehicle takes 8-9 months for dev quality, so just a new vehicle, can satisfy everyone.
     
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  16. Unster

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    I didn't mean to minimize the dev effort behind new content, but it is just new content, even if it's appreciated. I personally would like to see some focus shift back to improving the game core.
     
  17. ManfredE3

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    There's a lot that has been changing lately and/or coming up/being researched.

    The vehicle and map teams are mostly separate, so it doesn't really matter what's going on there in terms of how it affects the rate that we get game/physics features. At 9 months for a vehicle and several years for a ground up full sized map like Italy, that is a big recourse sink for maybe half of the 60-something person team. Combine that with maybe half of each of these teams being split off to bring up older content to the current standard and the team is stretched kinda thin considering everything that needs to be done before the game leaves open alpha.

    • Obviously career mode is the endless recourse sink. Gameplay is kinda important for the game... We know the button goes somewhere in the dev build, and we've seen changes such as the temporary removal of the garage tab "pending improvements" and the addition of dealerships to the maps, so things are obviously going in this direction in the "near" future TM
    • Nadeox mentioned a desire to redo achievements and I believe the campaign/scenario system, it's safe to assume that will be tied to career mode
    • TDK is doing his thing with sounds (Is Sebastian still on the team?). There was mention of ray tracing for convertible top and broken window sound effects at one point.
    • Traffic/AI is always in need of improvements, I'm sure GamerGull and others are hard at work on that. We have seen additions here recently, such as the WIP pooling system
    • Walk mode/triggers was just put in and of course is WIP. It sounds like this was very complicated to get working from what Diamondback has mentioned
    • Tire wear/thermals/flat spots is one ridiculously complicated intertwined system that it sounds like Estama has been fiddling with in their spare time... Massively complicated bit of physics there, to the point where Diamondback has expressed reserves with expectations here.
    • Diamondback has a few times now mentioned that a big bit of research lately is going into finding a way to have more in depth engine customization without snowballing into a QA nightmare
    • Similarly, we've seen additions to driving systems such as ESC and the like which have begun to enter public release with cars like the Vivace
    • Similarly 2x Diamondback has been collecting feedback on power train system for the recent changes to that, so there should be some tweaks based on that feedback in the pipeline
    • We recently saw an entirely new ground contact physics rework
    • Back in the Over the Horizon post from 2016 they mentioned research on network multiplayer. With the success of multiple third party mods for network multiplayer I assume this is being looked into again. Online racing is obviously very important for this genre.
    • There's the mysterious UI overhaul that we saw in 2018 and never heard about again, who knows what is going on there
    • They had a job opening for someone familiar with OS ports, so that's an interesting situation. Probably a Linux port, doing a console port while in open alpha would be an organizational nightmare
    • Ropables is another missing feature, it's safe to assume this was delayed which caused the D-Series wheel lift truck to be put on her very long hiatus. That thing's been in dev limbo for years now.
    I'm sure there's a ton of other stuff I am forgetting, that's just off the top of my head.

    Like I said, I'm sure most if not all of us would love to see ground deformation and dynamic dirt/scratches. But that is just one of many systems that are massively complicated that we want/need to see... VR support, tire simulation, engine component customization, improvements to traffic, and so on. All of these systems require so much research before the coding even begins and there's only so many people on the team.
     
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  18. Unster

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    But from a player's perspective, there isn't much over the past year or two that's changed that's actually noticeable, other than the new/updated vehicles & maps and the water splash particles. I honestly don't remember seeing any other changes, and I play the game regularly, especially after each update. OK, so there's also the walking mode. That shouldn't really be hard (I did it myself in a driving game), and at this point it's pretty useless. So if the team is spending huge effort on things that are already very good (tire simulation, vehicle customization, traffic AI) but no effort on things that are sorely missing like tire dust, I think the set of priorities is wrong. I could understand multiplayer being important to many people (not me) but as far as I know, work on that hasn't even begun. That leaves career mode which I'd agree is important, but unless everyone is tied up in that, I'd say effort/time is being wasted on things that don't actually need work.
     
    #18 Unster, May 4, 2021
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  19. ThatCarGuyDownTheStreet

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    It appears to me that you do not read the update logs. You should check them out sometime, there's ALOT more going on under the surface that you apparently haven't noticed.
     
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  20. Unster

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    I do read them. Apparently you didn't read my post above.
     
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