Hi there, So, as a gamer that plays a lot of driving/racing simulators (the likes of Asseto Corsa and Live for Speed mostly) and has a Driving Force GT steering wheel, I have noticed that the cars don't really behave on the roads as they really should, I'll list the points of what I think isn't exactly right or could be improved. (If similar things have already been posted sorry, or if the devs are working on these issues then good.) So, 1. The steering is quite terrible on any car, I mean you turn the wheel and almost nothing happens, I could stick my hand out the window and it would turn better. (you know air resistance n stuff) 2. The grip of the tyres feels quite weird, it could be the right amount of grip, but maybe the road surface parameters aren't right? Idk, but it just feels a little weird. 3. Oh my god the bounciness, It's quite a bit over exaggerated, again any car. I think it's the rebound rates are just too slow, but again idk. These are the three of my main concerns about the game, BUT, I love the game, the game is awesome even in early alpha. (GET SOME MORE STAFF SO IT GETS RELEASED EARLIER!!!) If you could get the driving physics anywhere near to the ones in LFS or Asseto Corsa, It would just be like the best all round racing/driving game ever. Cheers guys for your good work. (p.s. how soon are you going to add force feedback to the game? )
Dont know about the steering, that sounds more like an input problem than game issue. Most games (including LFS and assetto) handle nothing like real cars. For the purposes of gameplay they will change numerous aspects of a cars handling, BeamNG doesn't. Ever driven a real car? They are bouncy, they dont handle like games, they are slidey (I managed to get the tail out by driving around a roundabout at 25mph)
1. Are you talking about understeer? Which car? At what speed? 2. What do you mean by the grip being weird? Too much? Too little? Has a creepy smile? 3. Remember that these are not race cars at all. Also, try driving like you would in real life, or try driving in real life like you would in BeamNG and compare it then.
I have driven a real car, and I am about to do my theory test, and no, real cars do not handle anything like the cars in this game. Also, there is no input lag, because I can see the wheel turning, but the car doesn't turn at all, they understeer really badly, and the worst part is that I cannot feel the understeer coming at all, its like the car doesnt even attempt to turn in, it just understeers straight away. I think the cars just need to be fine tuned in this game so they handle somewhat like cars. Also, you know what handles nothing like a real car? NFS. Any single one of them, its almost like mario kart was more real. Anyways, I see what you are trying to say, and that the answer you gave is pretty much the standard answer that everyone uses to these types of posts, but I will stand my ground and say that those things need to be improved, because they are not realistic, at least not on standard cars. 1. Are you talking about understeer? Which car? At what speed? 2. What do you mean by the grip being weird? Too much? Too little? Has a creepy smile? 3. Remember that these are not race cars at all. Also, try driving like you would in real life, or try driving in real life like you would in BeamNG and compare it then. ^^ didn't want to double post so i'll just edit this one. 1. It is not just understeer its like there is some lag between when the wheel turns in the game and the wheels on the car turn, but the wheels actually turn in sync with the steering wheel, but yes, and as mentioned, any car. 2. It is a middle aged man with a candy in its mouth and is dressed like a stripper, but on a serious note, it just doesn't feel grippy, it feels like, uhmm, its hard to explain, like it doesn't stick to the corner at all if you know what I mean. 3. The car behaves alright, until you reach 40mph ish, and also, you don't feel the speed of the car at all in this game, at 60mph it feels like you're doing 30. maybe that's just me but still.
I agree with the OP but he is exagerating a little bit. The physics are dead on for collision, its amazing. The tire physics model needs more work, this isn't something that will happen overnight and I think the game devs could agree. LFS is a really good game, so is iracing and others. I think one of the biggest issue you are having with steering is the input / controller issue, that needs more work but you can definitely tell it can be figured out. I also noticed, maybe its the way people are tuning the cars in this game, the shocks / struts are very bouncy, like they are blown... There is just too many variables and i think the biggest focus for everyone in this game is the collision physics versus games where the focus is on the tire physics and the car handling physics. The less "tuning" that needs to be done, in my opinion... the better the world physics are setup in the first place. For example look how well the cars DO actually drive in BEAM NG Drive... they aren't bad.. they need work yeah but its really impressive to me for how well they do perform because im sure its all pure physics happening and nothing pre defined. I would give it time, but everyone should notice and acknowledge the tire model is definitely not 100% yet, if you say the driving in this game is on point, then maybe YOU haven't driven a car. BUT its getting there IMO. and i like it.
I didnt say input lag. I said an input issue. Switch to cabin view or open debug so you get a speedometer. Then watch what speeds you are going around a bend at, cars at speed understeer, funny that...
This confuses me because I have owned front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, and four wheel drive cars. And though the game is not completely relistic, it is probably to closest thing to it. I have never had trouble driving around or steering, what kind of controller have you been using?
LFS is probably the best racing sim out there to be honest. It's the only exception to that rule. @thread starter: Imho, the race update will probably fix 99% of the handling problems. The input lag and numbness in the tires is gone too. As for the bouncyness: real cars are really bouncy. This has been proven in about 10 videos around the forum and yet people still somehow keep ignoring those videos. It's just that the bumps on the maps are way bigger than real roads. I honestly think that if anyone still complains about car X handling "wrong" after the race update comes out is just wrong.
I agree with the OP but he is exagerating a little bit. The physics are dead on for collision, its amazing. The tire physics model needs more work, this isn't something that will happen overnight and I think the game devs could agree. LFS is a really good game, so is iracing and others. I think one of the biggest issue you are having with steering is the input / controller issue, that needs more work but you can definitely tell it can be figured out. I also noticed, maybe its the way people are tuning the cars in this game, the shocks / struts are very bouncy, like they are blown... There is just too many variables and i think the biggest focus for everyone in this game is the collision physics versus games where the focus is on the tire physics and the car handling physics. The less "tuning" that needs to be done, in my opinion... the better the world physics are setup in the first place. For example look how well the cars DO actually drive in BEAM NG Drive... they aren't bad.. they need work yeah but its really impressive to me for how well they do perform because im sure its all pure physics happening and nothing pre defined. I would give it time, but everyone should notice and acknowledge the tire model is definitely not 100% yet, if you say the driving in this game is on point, then maybe YOU haven't driven a car. BUT its getting there IMO. and i like it. Sorry, didn't notice your post there... What I meant by tuning was, stuff like camber, alignment, toe etc etc And well, yes I might have exaggerated a little bit. You mean the ONLY view that a sane person playing this type of game would use? I use a Driving Force GT Steering wheel. Maybe be I just want too much. idk. It wasn't the input lag that bothered me, it's hard to explain, but for example, when you're driving at lets say 40-50mph, and you turn your steering wheel 30 degrees or 50 degrees , the car would turn quite rapidly, in this game, it doesn't seem to do so, you just turn and turn and turn and then you realise that the car is understeering, but you can't feel it, becaus 1. there is no force feedback and 2. well idk, but you can't really feel it. Could it be that I am using 900 degrees on my steering wheel? one more thing, how do you load input maps? (didnt want to make another thread) p.s. bit of off topic "I'd rather lose by a mile because I built my own car than win by an inch because someone built it for me. Your car is your story, so don't let someone else write the book." -MOOG < AND THEN HE BUYS AN S2000
Maybe give it a try with the keyboard to eliminate a problem that could be caused by your controller. But at 40-50mph, you can expect a lot of understeer. That is a very high speed at which to be turning.
Yes, that's exactly what I meant with the input lag. It takes a while before the wheels actually make the car turn, because it keeps understeering for a bit, and before it snaps, you're already turning the wheel further which makes it understeer even longer. Took a long time and a lot of tweaking before they were able to fix that, but it's gone in the race update, and the tires are way less numb too And yes, I also think that the missing ffb plays a huge part in why some people(mostly the arm-chair physicists) think the cars don't handle properly. I hope it won't take too long before it gets added With the race update, I think many people will find the cars handle a lot like in LFS, at least if they keep handling the way they do in the current dev build and nothing gets broken Lolled at the S2000 thing So true.
I probably exaggerated again, but you get the jist. catch my drift. Know what I mean. blah blah blah. @mythbuster Race update sounds like a game changer... get it? huh, get it? Anyway, thanks for sharing the knowledge, and knowing what I mean. Any info on when the race update gets released?
Not a clue, sorry. Afaik, they usually just release things "when they're done", and I have no clue what else they want to add still In the immortal words of tdev: "Stay tuned "
Certainly helps on a real car. My car I can feel the point in the steering where if I turn the wheel just that touch further I will lose grip. You can feel the back end coming out while going around a corner in the wet fast enough for Mr plod to be interested. Off requested. Off responded too. The day ffb comes will be a good one. Even Xbox controller rumble is nice to have. One day...
Race update will make things a lot better, I can guarantee. I spent hours driving around with my 900 degree wheel (Fanatec 911 Turbo S) doing a mix of cruising, drifting, and racing, and other than the lack of FFB, it felt very responsive and natural. Input lag plays a huge role, and we improved that, as well as the root cause of it (low FPS). In addition most of the vehicles have received re-tuned tires and suspension. Differentials, brakes, and parking brake are also improved. The bounciness complaints need to stop. Drive the cars realistically over realistic bumps and they will behave realistically. The only problem here is that the bumps on our maps are too big, which we will hopefully fix for the race update. Watch this video. These are rally cars and they bounce like hell on a moderately sized jump: You guys are too used to other sims/games that fake their entire suspension model and discard the excess force the springs/dampers can't absorb. Go over a big jump in any racing "sim" and the car will just land and stop, magically sending the extra force into the nether.
My only slight niggle with the handling is the cars steering is perhaps too light at higher speeds, maybe some kind of steering damper (at least for keyboard control) as it gets quite hard to make small adjustments without throwing the whole car into a spin
Yes, we are planning on adding a physics-driven steering assist for keyboard and pad users, as it is very difficult to control a car with keyboard with no filtering.
I just want to add my 2 cents: I've been racing cars in real life for years and have been drifting cars for a about a decade and have to say that beamng's physics are actually pretty close to real life. Most cars in stock form really don't handle well at all since they're usually setup with comfort as a top priority. Once you've setup the suspension and engine, it still takes lots of experience and an almost "oneness" with the car to be able to use it effectively. There's a lot of manipulation of the car's weight while driving to get it to do what you want/need it to do that you just can't get feel for in a game. and a stock car takes a ton more weight shifting/managing to get it to even handle "ok". That's why placing an inexperienced driver in a fully tuned car will usually still end up with lots of understeer and probably a wall or two. So, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the crappy handling you're experiencing in beamng is pretty much how cars in real life handle: crappily But it's almost the same kind of crappy you'll experience on real roads with real factory setting which is hard to do. And even a well setup car may feel crappy to someone with little actual driving experience since there's so much you need to know to be able to use it effectively.
This is exactly how I've been feeling lately playing BeamNG with my wheel, with all of the cumulative improvements we've been making - the car feels like an extension of my body I lost track of time lapping Industrial with the Bolide 320, and I felt so in tune with it, knowing when the weight was transfering, knowing how to flick the wheel to save that bit of oversteer that happens when you come on the throttle just a bit too early... By the end of it I looked at my fuel meter and I'd burned a quarter tank of gas I did the same with the Bolide 390 GTR, which previously to me seemed like an unconquerable monster of a car, but because of the improvements in input lag and other things, I was really able to drive it at the limit (which is scary as hell - 0-60 mph in 3.8 seconds, no traction control or downforce). Another thing that's important to the feeling of driving the car is hearing the tire squeal, and we had a bug in there that was causing it to almost never be triggered. One of the most important things is knowing when you've come into turn too hot or turned the wheels too far, and hearing the tires squeal (we fixed the bug) helps immensely with the feeling of "oneness."
