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Steering assist for over(under)steerers

Discussion in 'Ideas and Suggestions' started by Brother_Dave, Nov 29, 2018.

  1. Brother_Dave

    Brother_Dave
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    Well im sitting in my car bored, watching yt vids and got thinking.

    Can this be somethong that can be added as a option; steering assist that adjust to a max allowed lateral slip/force value so that ppl dont steer too much at too high speed?
    Im guessing this is what many games use like Forza horizon and so on, to get ppl racing more. Especially with controllers and not steering wheels. In that game you cant really oversteer at higher speeds, making you loose your front tires grip.

    I dont think id use it but for other ppl complaining about too little grip, this might get them on the track.
     
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  2. The Stig Is A Spy

    The Stig Is A Spy
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    I'm pretty sure that under controls settings, the steering inputs have filters that make your steering lock proportional to your speed. The filter settings can be accessed through a tab at the top when you open the controls settings menu. As a keyboard driver, my steering would be all twitchy at speeds of 300+ kph if not for this filter.

    Unfortunately, it only limits steering based on speed and not grip.
     
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  3. Dr. Death

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    There's an option for drifting tho.
     
  4. Brother_Dave

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    Thanks forthe reply fellas, forgot about that. Im using direct/no filter at all.

    Yeah it is that slip based filter/assist that i think can be benefitted from. That way many will probably find it easier to drive, more can enjoy it, even though that part would be slightly less 'sim'.

    The ECS is already in there, might be easy to do something from that.
     
  5. ikt

    ikt
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    I've already made a request a year ago about it but nobody saw it, supposedly. Wish we'd just get a "can do"/"can not do" comment.

    In any case I've modded GTA V to disable the inherent stability control, and cars feel as unstable as in BeamNG, and devised some code to re-implement the stability control based on force feedback calculations.

    I'm pretty sure you guys at BeamNG know much more about vehicle dynamics than I do, so it's kinda weird the controls are so damn unenjoyable when not using a wheel.
     
    #5 ikt, Dec 3, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
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  6. Dr. Death

    Dr. Death
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    I have just realized that the steering filters are "grip" and "drift"

    Having a setting based on filtering the keyboard input based on speed and/or car grip is what i assume people are asking here and i am down for it. It would be great for drifting with a keyboard.
     
  7. Ai'Torror

    Ai'Torror
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    Don't expect a keyboard to be a good way of driving a car. I mean, there is a reason why we have a steering wheel instead of buttons and hydraulic actuators for steering IRL.
    For as realistic as beamng is, keyboard controlls are already decent and if you care enough to actually race in beamng and use it as a driving sim instead of just crashing all over the place, you should get a wheel (stuff like a logitech driving force isn't that expensive and it will provide you with decent force feedback and controll you need, you can also buy an used g25/g27 which works really well with beamng)
     
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  8. Brother_Dave

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    Youre stating the obvious mate. Every car game/sim is better with a wheel ofcourse but not everyone can buy a wheel, the masses will most probably not. In that way Beamng will loose users due to them not buying a wheel. Losing users means losing income. Imagine the great physics of Beamng being very much playable and enjoyable for all, not just hardcore sim racers.
    People play Forza, Gran turismo, Project Cars and they are considered sims for most but ppl still cant turn the wheels to full lock in high speed in those. Making it an option simply opens up BeamNG for more users.

    Edit: changed a 'can' to 'cant'.. makes all the difference.
     
    #8 Brother_Dave, Dec 5, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  9. ikt

    ikt
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    A keyboard or controller can be a great game input and a few lines of code can make the game more enjoyable, without having to drag out and/or have a permanent wheel setup. The crashing-all-over-the-place is the car not behaving like your expectations.

    For example, let's take a very simple action - straight line acceleration. Cars in BeamNG tend to veer off to one direction, while in real life this wouldn't happen without any steering input, as physics would (in most vehicle setups) make the front wheels track straight, even with spinning rear tyres. You're not going to robotically force the steering wheel to stay straight, that's how you get Mustangs plowing into crowds.

    The steering system for keyboard and/or controller inputs should focus on what a user expects. No input - let the steering wheel do whatever it would if you applied force feedback to a steering wheel. Input - steer as much as needed to change direction from the current direction.

    If you've ever played GTA V, you know how nice and stable the handling is. If you look at the front wheels, you can see why - your inputs are suggestions to the game, and it figures out what actual steering input is needed to mirror your expectations.

    I actually have a G27, so it's not like I'm limited in enjoyment of BeamNG, but it just has been having a rather off-putting input model for casual inputs, ever since existing.

    If you don't believe any of this, fine, but please take a closer look at how GTA V is nice to play with keyboard/controller input and how it's realized. I linked my custom implementation earlier, which gets pretty close, and that's just from my observation and implementing my theories.

    ---

    Also are any devs active on the forums?
     
    #9 ikt, Dec 5, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  10. Ai'Torror

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    The thing that is really good about beamng steering is that it does EXACTLY WHAT YOU TELL IT TO DO if you use any controller whether it is a keyboard or a wheel it will do exactly what you tell it to. For peiple who want to play on a keyboard there is a filtering option that helps the player to use a button for an action ehich should use an axis, so you can just tap the button for the car to steer more gently, which is nice. The whole point of beamng is for it to br realistic, so adding a steering assist which steers the car for the driver would be rather unrealistic, so it is fully realistic that if you do not countersteer car might slide and spin out or start turning, especially in case of more powerfull vehicles. Games like forza aren't meant to be realistic and in fact forza is awfull on a wheel. I see no real point in wasting development time on making the game less realistic just so people can drive on keyboard more easilly.
     
  11. Slammington

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    I hate this realism argument. You're steering a several ton vehicle with a keyboard, that's already extremely unrealistic. I dare you to watch a semi truck go from lock to lock in a fraction of a second and say it's "realistic".
    For wheel users, the game is pretty good, and quite immersive as it is.
    For keyboard users, however, I don't see why the experience needs to be made purposely bad, for no reason other than "it's not an arcade game". The physics we've seen so far in this game have already put it miles away from anything else on the market. There's no reason a simple input assist would break the immersion for players.

    So for the love of god, please stop using this realism argument when it comes to input mapping, folks.
     
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  12. ikt

    ikt
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    In addition to what @Slammington said - I can't imagine a feature like this would need to take any significant amount of development time. It would greatly enhance the experience, for less than a week of work (1 person).
     
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  13. Brother_Dave

    Brother_Dave
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    I think you miss atleast my point. Im not suggesting an assist that takes over. Im suggesting an optionable assist that limits input at a certain speed or idealy a slip value. Basicly a understeer assist/limiter that helps ppl using a keyboard to not go lock to lock, causing understeer or irratic behavior.

    Im using both a wheel and a keyboard. Got the wheel hooked up to my gaming computer and tv upstairs, my keyboard to my laptop downstairs thats connected to the downstairs tv, playing BeamNG on Remote Desktop.


    Also, edited an earlier comment.
     
  14. Diamondback

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    The problem with understeer is that it's not possible to tell upfront where to limit the steering. Just like IRL, our tires have varying peak grip slip angles, so a fixed limit just doesn't cut it.
    If we were to make it a fixed limit, there would always be users that have the feeling that without the assist, they would have been quicker through the corner etc, so overall not a super good solution.
     
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  15. fufsgfen

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    Limiting steering by speed is in game, also there is filtering which makes inputs less violent, using those option one can achieve quite good 'assisted' keyboard driving mode.
     
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  16. ikt

    ikt
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    The adjustable speed-governed assist/limiter that exists now is fine as it is, it's just the dynamic behavior that's lacking for keyboards and controllers. I take this is more of a response towards OP than my posts?
     
  17. Brother_Dave

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    I havent used keyboard much, mostly used wheel, say 97%. Using keyboard more atm and i must admit i havent seen the limit steering by speed before. Is it off by default? It really helps (ALOT) in the way i was talking about so its abit embarassing tbh. I do find it abit harder then id ideally have it by using a keyboard and i guess that is the limitations of the limit by speed and not slip.
     
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