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(TITLE WAS CHANGED) WIP PAINT SCRATCHES

Discussion in 'Ideas and Suggestions' started by ParadoxShiba, Jul 13, 2020.

  1. Grind86

    Grind86
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    Maybe, that's true, but we should give the devs a few years to figure how to implement it.
     
  2. Slugfest

    Slugfest
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    You understand RAM, right? It will just wait until the RAM is freed up, not store that on your hard drive. Anyway, the point is to stop it from becoming non-runable on borderline computers. Computers are not all either AMD 64 core Nvidia GTX or Intel i3 iGPU WhateverTheLowestIs. Many run on borderline PCs, and as a community we should understand that, so despite my computer having a great CPU (it's not epic, but it's nothing to scoff at) I still fight against pushing it NOW, NOW, NOW.
     
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  3. Phym

    Phym
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    We were supposed to be peaceful. It was over. Bruh
     
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  4. Unster

    Unster
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    You type too much with little understanding of how computers work. When you run out of RAM, your computer will indeed start using a section of your hard drive as RAM. It's called swap space, and it's very slow. First you said that low-RAM PC's will have trouble because they will have to be "skipping code" on the hard drive, and now you're saying the hard drive isn't used at all for RAM purposes. So which is it?

    In the end, it's not up to you or me what gets implemented. Let the devs decide what's doable in a reasonable time frame. Me says you worry too much.
    --- Post updated ---
    I wasn't the one spamming this thread. I was gone for a day, only to see this thread explode to 5 pages for no good reason and no useful information.
     
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  5. Phym

    Phym
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    *Sigh*, you spam this thread now, it’s what you’re doing.
     
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  6. Slugfest

    Slugfest
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    I will look into that, I don't think my PC does that, but I may be incorrect. (It happens to us all once in a while :oops:) From what I remember, or at least thought, hard-drive located working data was a predecessor to RAM, and got phased out once computers got more advanced, but I could be wrong. I am sure that the main program code is located on the hard drive, so I don't know how skipping lines of code has anything to do with RAM being stored on the hard drive, as I was talking about the lethargy of getting the next lines of code from the hard drive (with it having to skip all that code in between read code on the hard drive) before anything else can happen. I could be wrong on both of these, but thankfully there are still many additional reasons that scratches would slow a computer too much, so my argument still stands. (whew :D)

    As for the worrying too much about what gets implemented, I am not worrying, just attempting to explain to people with gaming PCs how unrealistic getting realistic scratches in-game is even for those of us with pretty good non-gaming PCs.

    And we discussed a lot, so maybe it wasn't useful to you, but we discussed more than most people I know know about computers. (Let's just say not all of my friends are technologically knowledgeable ;))
     
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  7. Grind86

    Grind86
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    Okay, I'll be fair here. That's a good point.
     
  8. Occam's Razer

    Occam's Razer
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    There seems to be a rumor that if the devs were to tackle this problem, they'd be physically simulating each flake of paint. Lemme offer some conjecture and say that there is no way in hell that any sane, sound-minded developer of any game would ever consider physically simulating each and every single individual chip of paint on a car. It would be an absurdly contrived solution for a relatively average problem. Yes, the devs want to create a game that is as realistic as possible, but there is a 'within reason' in there. After all, windows and headlights currently break in a completely binary fashion, with a sound and inexpensive particle effect to go along. Hardly a hard-line simulation of each and every component: but it's enough.

    @ParadoxShiba The biggest reason I can think of as to why paint damage is a tough nut to crack is actually more tied to the materials system. Deciding where paint damage should go (according to which nodes have made sliding contact with another surface) would require something like a vertex blend, which isn't a feature that Beam's material system currently supports. Nodes can tell when they're sliding (the sound and fire systems demonstrate this) but deciding which polygons get scratches and then showing those scratches are probably the harder parts.

    You might need 3-4 per car, at most. If we're talking about the same system, wherein a texture is overlayed onto the skin channel, you'd only need maybe two gradations of damage, plus an extra one or two for additional parts of the vehicle body (the cement mixer's drum, for instance): the storage impact of a few additional skins per vehicle. If you're clever about it, you might even get away with using a common detail map for multiple vehicles.
     
    #108 Occam's Razer, Aug 1, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
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  9. Phym

    Phym
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    You’d need 3-4 if you want minor damage. But BeamNG is about realism. And people would say that the levels of damage aren’t good enough, so the devs would be forced to add more, and there’s the fact that each texture has to be a little bit of the car, so you’d need hundreds for realism. And 30 or so for space saving.
     
  10. crashmaster

    crashmaster
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    Bruh...
    if i cared and had the time to do this, i could add scratches to all official cars with 1 tilable seamless texture.

    If devs wants the most extreme realism like you guys want, maybe 3-4 variation of colors and scratch depth to handle different situations. but at the end of the day you might need a few high res seamless textures and thats all. not 30 or so... thats just being inefficient
    There are way more simple ways to make stuff happen then to endlessly make textures for nothin.

    As Razor said above tho, its impossible to create a system which could affect each and every single paint flake, we need a middle ground thats makeable while still not being so complicated that the devs will have to focus all their development on scratches for the next year or so.
     
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  11. Phym

    Phym
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    there's still the fact that a system to identify each scratch is impossible. I also meant 30-100 for the entire car, not just an area. with only 4 scratch textures for an entire car would be a little scrape on the bumper would have the whole front end scratched. but this feature is impossible to implement.


    we're just continuing an already resolved issue, please can we stop.
     
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  12. crashmaster

    crashmaster
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    Proof of concept.
    If its properly done, the entire bumper wont be scratched if you hit the left side.
    This worked the same way glass breakage works.
    Idk whats so complicated about this.
    The system to identify each scratches is called deformGroup, half of what we need to make it work is already implemented in the game, yall are just blinded by perfection and scratches that are basically too good to be true in a game or just a system thats too complicated for nothing at all..


    1 seamless texture = simple asf.
    why get 30-100 texture for 1 car? like dude... you are tryin to simulate every freakin paint flake at this point. just stop. its over the top way too complicated for such a simplistic problem.

    Scratches is doable but devs has other things thats priority, like actual game content aka career and new cars/maps.
    I hope they will implement scratches in a nice but simple way in the future.
    Until the devs talks about how they do it, the simple way to make scratches possible on a car is with deformGroup thats it thats all, dont need to look any further for answers.
     
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  13. Phym

    Phym
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    is it that hard to just end this? I understand how it can't be implemented. I understood how it can't be implemented. so stop wasting my time. You're continuing a dead arguement. Stop already.
     
  14. crashmaster

    crashmaster
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    "stop wasting my time"
    aka wasting other peoples time on the forum.
    Ya sure bud.
    Literally not arguing but telling people how easy it is and explaining how it can be done.
    I wasnt arguing m8, but the 6 previous pages of complaining was completely fine tho.

    If you cant let people be informative what even are you doing.
    We want to make shit happen in this community? yes? no?
    Let the information go out there and stop mini moderating people because they annoy you personally.
    if this was a dead argument we wouldnt even see this thread but we do. so to me this is still a valid thread.

    Seriously dude, you are getting on my nerves rn. tryina stop me from posting cuz its a "dead argument", the only one arguing is you man. you are the only one posting one after another, you are wasting peoples time. stop being an ass and let people be informative with stuff.

    This forum is going to shit because of people like you tryina mini moderate everything and tell everyone how to/when to talk on the forum. stop this nonesense.
     
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  15. Slugfest

    Slugfest
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    Hey @crashmaster , do you think you could work on and release that as an actual mod? I mean I know it won't be completely realistic (and therefore the devs might not work to make in an official part of the game) but if you have really been able to do that, I think you should let the world see and improve it rather than just go "I've done it, so we know it's possible, now you do it from scratch" :) Don't get me wrong, I've always wanted to see scratches in-game, I just thought that the performance impact would be too great.
    --- Post updated ---
    Now I feel like one of those people who said BeamMP was impossible :oops:
     
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  16. crashmaster

    crashmaster
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    Id love to do it tbh.
    I lost all the files a while ago since this is a very old proof of concept.
    I used the seamless scratches textures from dirt showdown, if someone wants to make me a higher res seamless scratch texture it would be highly appreciated.
    the only thing that changes is nicer looking scratches and repo friendly mod, if not ill have to use that dirt showdown texture and i wont be able to upload it to the repo.

    Tbh, i might do the covet and release it, see where it goes from there. its quite a simple process just time consuming as everything is.
     
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  17. Phym

    Phym
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    I'm not mini moderating, I'm tired of this. Sorry, but I'm not going to be in this anymore, you do whatever you want. I'm not stopping you. Sorry for anything I did wrong, but this problem was resolved Yesterday. Here is the conclusion: Scratches are possible, just it would be very hard to implement. Are we cool now?
     
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  18. Meridius

    Meridius
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    I've been waiting for breakable materials, scratches, and particle effects for ages. And probably I'm not the only one who bought this game only to slow-mo wreck ordinary cars on gridmap - it's what the game excels at. I couldn't care less about career mode or new maps, which are horribly optimized anyway.
     
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  19. Slugfest

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    I would love to see where it goes, can't wait!
     
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  20. ParadoxShiba

    ParadoxShiba
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    You know what? Im making a new thread that has dank memes in it. since this one went down the drain
    Don't you realize? THE PLAYERS ARE GONNA SAY ITS BAD THEN TELL THEM ON HOW THEY CAN IMPROVE IT. it does not need to be perfected from the start.
     
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