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Very low grip with rally tires?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by M1128Stryker, Nov 8, 2019.

  1. M1128Stryker

    M1128Stryker
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    I have noticed in the latest patch that I am unable to make a good handling rally car on rally tires. I have built and tuned the Sunburst many different ways, tried the way the default in-game Rally one is tuned, but to no avail. It just slips and slides. Also, on some configs the brakes are basically useless. I go full brake, and the car barely slows. I see the brake temps climbing very slowly, and when I check the ABS graph, it shows that the brake force is max at first, then decreases to a small value, that takes ages to stop. I only see this on rally tires and some offroad tires on the D-series. I have put the best brakes and brake paads, nothing helps. Rally would be manageable with slippy tires, but with no brakes it's impossible to play normally.
     
  2. Nadeox1

    Nadeox1
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    BeamNG.Support
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    Just to be sure, are you using mods? If yes, have you checked in Safe Mode? There's some old mod that apparently breaks the brakes on some vehicle.
     
  3. M1128Stryker

    M1128Stryker
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    The issue seems to be wheels. The brakes work like a champ on my config of the Sunburst with asphalt tires, I change nothing except the tires to rally and brakes become useless suddenly.
     
  4. (GNG) [S.PLH] wearyNATE15

    (GNG) [S.PLH] wearyNATE15
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    I found sometimes the same thing happens to me, but with any kind of tire AFAIK. You press the brakes after going over a jump or something and after you land the brakes have almost no power until you pump them 1-2 times, but by then your already in a tree. I dont think its easy to replicate from my memory, but I dont think it has anything to do with mods.
     
  5. SebastianJDM

    SebastianJDM
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    that's abs, sometimes it messes up and decides not to brake after wheelspin or similar circumstance
     
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  6. stenyak

    stenyak
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    That seems to be the case. I've experienced the same thing in real life while racing over a crest, the ABS will freak out and stop responding for a second before it finally catches up and allows me to not crash my car into the barriers.
    Also note that tires that perform well offroad will not perform good on road (and viceversa).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
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    Current ABS with 4WD can get into confused state for until something jolts it enough to get it back to senses, that can mean no meaningful braking until almost stopped.

    Opel Calibra, 1996 DTM season and dusty side of track did experience bit similar I believe when Rosberg crashed to his team mate. I think it was 1996, not sure about year though.

    Software, any software, can contain bugs, but at least ABS in BeamNG works pretty much always when going backwards.

    Current ABS code appears to behave like so that when there is wheelspin and you hit brakes, available grip / max allowed brake force is stored like if surface would be very slippery, then update to that is not happen until gear shift or some other bigger change makes re-computing of maximum allowed brake force to happen.

    Or maybe it is just that code sees sliding when there is none.

    Can very much happen IRL too, one variable goes out of range and fail safe does not catch that, you get odd results.

    ABS that would work perfectly is something that is easy to create, just use velocity of vehicle, not speed from wheelspeed, it would work perfectly, way too perfectly, not at all like cars work and perfect is not that is wanted in simulation.
    In Assetto Corsa and Project Cars series, I think ABS uses vehicle speed instead of wheel speed, not 100% certain, but it is just very perfect, releasing brake force when slip exceeds amount X, I guess.

    In those games experience is bit unnatural at times, ABS gets so good that all those little imperfections from real world seem not to be present, but it is really great for racing game purposes, where you might not want to have unpredictability to brake behavior, different purpose, different means and solutions are needed.

    Still I think it is bit easy to get ABS in BeamNG into not braking state, with some setups/vehicles driving enthusiastically is not possible as it is more times ABS not working fully than what there is times it works.

    If code would compare wheels to each other to determine locked state and then release brake pressure, allowing some lockup, kind of like old slow ABS did IRL, then there would not be issue with ABS not allowing to brake as ABS code would have data about if wheel is spinning or locked, if no rotation for time X then is locked.

    Tuning time X would allow faster or slower reacting ABS, so for example old vehicles might lock more than newer vehicles.

    However ABS is meant to deal with all possible and even unforeseen vehicles and needs to be far bit more complex system than simple ABS in 80's and early 90's IRL vehicles, not sure if such simple workaround would do much.
     
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