Civetta Scintilla

I believe yes because even the AWD variants with relatively sticky tires (the Sport Plus 2Rs instead of the All-Seasons they normally come with) experience wheel blockage due to this system while launching. They should be launching like rockets but the system eats valuable time into fiddling with what wheel to slow down.

 

It's already fast enough and look at what atv123 said

 

I did look at what atv123 said and I refuse to believe it because an LSD would simply put the power down instead of making a whole Christmas tree of ESC lights in the gauge cluster. There's a reason only McLaren uses such a system and nobody else: because LSDs are a proven and easily configurable technology.

 

Mclarens are also renowned to be great to drive so clearly it's not a bad choice.

 

Well, the F8 tributo has the equivalent to the Sport Diffs on beamng (eLSD), and the 911 GT3 uses a torque vectoring diff, also their brands are better known by their racing heritage, as well the 911 GT3 is one of the fastest cars around Nordschleife

 

Deleted.

 

Seems like you are the person who are in confusion. Please do some actual test driving like McBeamer 94 instead of saying those benefits out of pure speculation

Powertrain Visualization and Wheels Debug ui app are recommended to use in the following tests.
Test 1: Drive an RWD vehicle such as the Moonhawk, apply high throttle during cornering, epuip open diff, LSD, welded diff. Which one is the most oversteery?

Spoiler: Result

Welded most oversteery open most understeery, LSD in between

Test 2: Drive a factory street-legal AWD vehicle such as the Vivace Arsenic 410 DCT, and take a corner as quickly as possible, change the diff from open to LSD, how's that feel?

Spoiler: Result

Said Vivace is oversteery during trail braking, and understeery during corner exit, when using LSDs, both of them get mitigated

Test 3: Drive a high-powered racing AWD vehicle such as the Pessima Hillclimb, apply full throttle during a corner, what's the faster side and what's the faster axle?

Spoiler: Result

The rear axle is faster and the inner wheels spin faster. Mind blown?

Test 4: Drive a vehicle with torque vectoring such as the Kc6dx Driving Experience and compare it with its non-torque vectoring counterpart such as the Kc6, in the most sporty mode (TTSport). Compare their handing and wheel speed

Spoiler: Results

Driving Experience has better handing, and during higher throttle Driving Experience's outer wheels spin faster while Kc6's inner driven wheel spin faster, Kc6tx(active LSD)'s wheelspeeds are roughly the same

Let's analyze these tests. Test 1: The higher locking the differential, the faster the outer wheel, the slower the inner wheel during higher throttle, the more the torque is being sent to the outer wheel during high throttle operation. Test 2: LSD reduces oversteer during trail braking by reducing the intensity of inner rear wheel lockup in addition to ABS, LSD reduces understeer during corner exit by not only reduce torque from the inner wheels, but also increase torque to the outer wheels by an equal amount(braking can't do that). Test 3: T During high-G maneuver the tires are subject to elastic creep, which means even if the tires are gripping the ground(not in a drift), wheel speed is still slightly higher than ground speed, the higher the load, the higher the max friction, the lower the creep at a given torque.
Test 4: Torque vectoring is capable of sending more torque to the faster wheel, while a mechanical LSD can only send more torque to the slower wheel.

Now, debunk said "benefits"

These two sentences contradict themselves, according to the law of energy conservation.

There's no inter-axle torque transfer in an open diff, the torque distribution is always 50:50

As explained above, during aggressive cornering, the inner wheel spins faster thanks to elastic creep, an LSD sends more torque to the slower wheel, improving traction and handling significantly, while brake the inner wheel does not increase the torque to the outer wheel, means open diff + braking system is only 50% as effective as LSD at most.

Again, an open differential's torque distribution is always 50:50, such a differential cannot redirect torque. An LSD can redirect torque from the faster wheel to the slower wheel, and remember the inner wheel is faster during aggressive cornering, and a torque vectoring diff can direct torque to either the slower wheel or the faster wheel.

Geared up means lower torque, that's the reason lower gear has higher torque multiplication.

If the vehicle is lifted from the ground, braking one side does make the other side speed up. However, since the vehicle is being driven on ground, you need extra torque to speed up.

Contradict with Test 2

Assume an offroad vehicle has permanent AWD with three differentials, and only one wheel is on tarmac and the other 3 wheels have zero traction. Compared to 3 locking differential, a vehicle with 3 open differential and a tuned braking system needs 4 times as much as engine power to get unstuck.

That's how the Labrador Beaver 8x8 works, however, watch how quickly the speed drops when using said brake steer.

For extra information, please read this article

As I said before, I'm not against the use of open diff in supercars like the Scintilla, I just want to clarify some complex things in the world full of lies.

Thanks for reading!

 

Really? Didn't know that. Interesting.

 

(Shameless plug)When using this mod with ESC off, the lap time gets better or worse?

 

Right... which I don't disagree with in the slightest and this is all, in fact, exactly what I would expect. A good analysis though nonetheless.

Alright... with this you appear to be correct... but you are kind of taking what I said out of context. What I actually said was:

"plus, by using an open differential, the engine torque is free to move to the unbraked wheel where it can still help propel the vehicle."

Perhaps I didn't do enough explaining? Granted if I do... then you fire back with this next bit...

Which confuses me... because you clearly know what your talking about... but then you go and say something like that which is correct... kinda... but only technically (which I suppose is the "best" kind of correct... but I digress)

So... an example.



In this situation... lets pretend for a moment that this Jeep if FWD. It's not... but lets pretend.

I believe you will agree with me that if that front diff is open... then this thing is stucker than stuck and isn't going anywhere. That front passenger tire can spin to its hearts content but no driving will happen. Where has the torque gone? Well, since there is no resistance on that tire, 100% of the torque is now going to that tire in the air... HOWEVER... if you want to be super technical about it, as it seems you do, the gearing across the spider gears have now effectively geared up this airborn tire 2:1 as that is just how a typical open diff works. This also, effectively, reduces the torque that that tire would receive by half... so yes... technically it is still just 50% of the torque... but 100% of it is being applied to that tire.

Alright cool. Now that that is taken care of... lets do a thought experiment. Pretend that someone comes along and jams something in that rim to effectively "lock" the tire in place. Maybe they jammed a crowbar in the rim and its pressing against the body... I dunno... but that airborn tire is now 100% incapable of rotating. Now lets try to move the vehicle forwards again... what happens now?

You can actually do this in beam if you so wish and you don't believe me I guess. I haven't tried it in beam as my computer is temporarily out of commission... however, knowing how accurately beam is modeled to the real world, I don't have to. I have done something similar many times to get vehicles unstuck.

So what effectively happens is that torque now will try again to find its path of least resistance. Since that passenger tire is effectively locked in place now, its only other option is to send the torque to the other wheel, which in turn, pulls the entire vehicle forwards. Sure, its at double the speed and half the torque, but it pulls it forwards nonetheless. So even though that tire is effectively being "braked" it is still helping propel the vehicle forwards.

Again, I don't argue that. I agree with it completely which may strike you as odd seeing as how hard you came at me in that post. But remember... with the braking system we aren't locking the tires or anything like that... we are just taking a wheel that has gotten a little unruly (spinning faster than it should) and just slowing it down to get that traction back. Yes, braking systems will always sap power from the driveline... that is just a fact. But by slowing those tires and getting the traction back, you can then proceed to use that traction for cornering more effectively which is really where a system like this shines. You can use it as a form of traction control I guess... but in a system like this, just cutting engine power is more effective if both rear tires are still causing traction issues. (or front, or all tires... you get the idea)

See above I guess

Correct... not arguing that at all.

Wait... so you DO understand? Then why are you even arguing with me? There are no lies. Its not like I am implying that the car is just magically making power out of the brakes or something like that. Also in braking systems like these, to mitigate the torque loss from the gearing across the differential, most of these systems (when it comes to offroading) will actually maintain wheel speed on the spinning wheels. This is done on purpose to effectively simulate 4 wheels with traction so that none of the gearing changes, and thus no torque at any wheel changes. Doing this the impact on power required to propel the vehicle shouldn't be much higher than if it were just driving all 4 wheels equally as it is the same amount of resistance. If the system fully locks all the zero traction wheels however, then yes, you will need a lot of extra effort to propel the stuck vehicle as now everything has been effectively geared up just as you stated.

The main reasons systems like this are used is because of either comfort (no issues with potential overlocking in slow corners giving wheel hop or skidding), cost (if you have brakes on your car, a good abs system capable of controlling all 4 wheels, and a computer, you have literally everything required to make this system function), control (like I said before, you can use this system to over brake inside wheels while entering a corner at speed which effectively helps steer the car into the corner harder), its light... or at least much lighter than some of the more complicated mechanical systems out there, or a combination of the 4. If you have a very powerful car that can effectively nullify the loss of power and still break the tires lose then you are effectively losing nothing other than you have to step on the pedal a little harder. That is why McLaren uses such a system now adays (although I am sure cost had nothing to do with it for them)

 

Dunno, don't use such mods.

 

I didn't mean that.

I wasn't arguing with you. "In this world full of lies" I was toward vehicle manufactures who use misleading words to confuse the customers.
Sorry for the misinterpretation, I apologize.

 

I was thinking about this car, would it be possible to have a "Prototype" version added where Torque Vectoring was tested on it but it never made it out the factory door but it was there on the "test mule" (the Prototype)

I just think putting something like that onto this car would make it quite unique, is it possible to code something like that or is it already in the code but no one has had a chance to prod it yet with a stick?

Its something to think on, because I would almost wanna see what this car would do if it had the ability to shift the power around so that you had the confidence to bury the throttle mid corner and know its going to stick and power through the bend as if it was nothing

 

The miscoloring issue of the Race Hood was fixed with the 0.25.3 Update. Thank you very much dearest devs!

In the meantime, here's an idea for a new variant: a street-legal, lightweight, track-focused variant with most of the race parts we see on the Race version.

• The Race Interior Design
• The Race Seats
• The Race Pedalbox
• The Lightweight Glass Panes/Door Panels
• The Race Hood (so no Frunk Liner underneath, although an undertray panel could be covering the empty slot created when the Frunk Liner is absent because there's a large empty area there hindering aerodynamics)
• The 19x11in front Dreid C70-2/19x12in rear Dreid C70-2-D Wheels with Race Tires
• The Adjustable Race Suspension parts
• The Race Engine parts (Race Intake, Race Long Block, Performance Race Exhaust, Race Oil Pan, Ultra Heavy Duty Engine Mounts) plus the High Performance Radiators and the Race LSD with the same 4.89 final drive as the GTs Corse
• Finally, the "Insulation and Accessories" slot will be absent because lightweight, with only the Sun Visors being left intact

Like I said, this version will be street-legal, so it's also gonna have:

• The Sport ECU (so not the Adjustable Race ECU)
• The Front Inner Fenders and the Performance Rear Inner Fenders
• The Carbon-Ceramic Brakes
• The factory Dashboard and Steering Wheel
• The Performance Rear Spoiler
• The Street-spec Driving and Safety Electronics (with the Strada, Sport, Corse and ESC & TC Off drivemodes and the Sport mode as the Default one)
• The 7-Speed DCT as standard (so no Clutch Pedal in the Race Pedalbox)
• No Roll Cage

This variant can bridge the gap between the GTs Corse and the Race variants and I actually found a name for it: the GT Stradale.
I also weighed the GT Stradale and the GTs Corse and found out that the GT Stradale is 153kgs/338lbs lighter than the GTs Corse - that's 1341kgs/2955lbs for the GT Stradale VS 1494kgs/3293lbs for the GTs Corse. And that's without the Roll Cage of the Race variant (with it installed, the weight of the GT Stradale is at 1356kgs/2988lbs, but then the side air vents on the factory Dashboard are deemed useless because the Roll Cage goes through them).
So yeah, the GT Stradale variant could very well exist in the Scintilla lineup!


And here are some screenshots of the GT Stradale plus the weight comparison between the GTs Corse and the GT Stradale, with all the aforementioned parts installed (minus the Roll Cage). I made two versions of the GT Stradale, one without any paint design and another one with the Stripes paint design.
The third picture shows the Race rear wing and the absence of the Civetta badges on the front fenders because I hadn't perfected/finalized the configuration back then and forgot to take a new screenshot with the Performance Rear Wing and the Civetta badges to be shown. This is not the final product shown in that picture.

 

The AWD ESC seems to be broken as it manages to understeer at any speed, even just 25 mph sends it skittering off the road when cornering. RWD is much more manageable

 

It’s rapid. I have to drive it with my big toe to be smooth.
No other comments, it’s perfect.

 

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui...162261&th=1818de7a6077bc15&view=att&disp=safe

Don't know if this link will work, But I found a bug with the Scintilla rear when I don't have the rear window installed.

 

This is because the AWD system is currently unable to tell whether the vehicle us understeering or not, as there's "--todo change once understeer can be detected reliably" in the file "\BeamNG.drive\lua\vehicle\controller\drivingDynamics\supervisors\components\awdControl.lua"

You might ask why the ESC/DSC can't tell understeer reliably? Well the reason is actually very simple in the "\BeamNG.drive\lua\vehicle\controller\drivingDynamics\supervisors\yawProviders\STMEstimate.lua" line 78

Code:

  controlParameters.maxLateralAcceleration = jbeamData.maxLateralAcceleration or 12

This is the whole reason why ESC often mistaken large steering input as oversteer. As you can see, non of the BeamNG-offical car with DSE defines the "jbeamData.maxLateralAcceleration", non of them, so they use 12 as default. This means if the lateral acceleration caused by driver's input reaches 12m/s^2, the ESC will simply ignore further steering input.
Come on, if you ignore steering input where understeering is likely of course you can't detect understeer reliably.

As I said before in another thread "This game simulates ESC realistically since there are few games that demonstrate the actual limitations of ESC."
The Scintilla, as a supercar, needs a larger "jbeamData.maxLateralAcceleration" in their sporty drive mods