0.32 Discussion Thread

SemKill · Jun 27, 2024

ARES IV said: ↑

I might have found a curious thing about the thermal simulation of combustion engines:

(Tested in safe mode)

It seems that Superchargers - counterintuitively - add more thermal stress to an engine than a turbocharger of identical wheel power output:

On an otherwise identical vehicle with the same V6 Engine after 10 miles of driving with a sustained engine power output of 466 bhp:

The supercharged engine reads the following thermal data:

Coolant: 192 °F
Oil: 238 °F
Block: 197 °F
Cylinder Wall: 220 °F
Exhaust Manifold: 913 °F
View attachment 1145568

The turbocharged engine reads the following thermal data:

Coolant: 191 °F
Oil: 233 °F
Block: 194 °F
Cylinder Wall: 207 °F
Exhaust Manifold: 799 °F
View attachment 1145569

Video of the test:

This seems odd.

Both engines spin at almost 6000 RPM and produce 466 bhp of engine power output. This means that both engines take in the same amount of air and fuel and burn it inside the cylinder. The pistons depress with the same force in the combustion stroke for both engines as indicated by the identical flywheel torque.

So we are burning the same amount of fuel and air on both engines... so total thermal output of the engine should the same. Burning 1 liter of fuel always creates the same amount of heat energy so the same amount of waste heat has to be removed from both engines. We are just looking at the engine here, no auxilary systems.

We induct air and fuel worth 466 bhp and we spin at 6000 RPM, so both waste heat from burning fuel and waste heat from friction should be identical.

So if we would assume a scenario where both turbo and supercharger are driven by an external power source and that the exhaust has the same backpressure, then thermal load on the engine should be identical.

We have heat generated by combustion which is identical because we output the same torque and power and we have the heat generated by friction which is also identical, because both identical engines spin at almost 6000 RPM.

So any difference in thermal stress on the engine, has to come from the supercharger or the turbo charger, please correct me if I am wrong.

Both Super and Turbocharger add more air to the engine, increasing torque and power. The super charger however is driven directly by the engine, sapping away power. So less of the supercharged engines power reaches the wheels of the car.
And indeed the supercharged cars needs to stay at wide open throttle to maintain 183 mph of speed while the turbocharged one can decrease throttle (and is capable of going faster than 183 mph) There is certainly a loss of power on the supercharged car... but it seems to happen after the combustion and as such, heat output on both engines should be identical.

But it isnt.

And even more curious, it isnt the glowing hot engine oil cooled turbocharger that increases thermal stress on the engine.... no... it is the comparable cold supercharger that drives up the temperature of the engine. A supercharger that in theory should have its own independent lubrication system and operates at far lower temperatures than the engine oil cooled turbocharger.

So why is the oil temp of the supercharged engine hotter than the one of the turbocharged engine? Remember, we burn the same amount of fuel and air at the same RPM.... so by all means, the waste heat output of the actual engine operation should be identical. There is not more combustion heat nor is there more friction... so why is the oil temperature higher?

If anything has a right to drive up the oil temperature, it should be the turbocharger. Spinning at 10000s of revolutions per minute and half of it being placed right into the exhaust stream where conditions are quite literally hell on earth. With the exception of some modern engines, the only thing keeping a turbocharger cool, is the engine oil pumped through it. This of course heats up the oil and would explain a higher oil temperature.

Could it be, that there is an issue in the code that treats superchargers as turbochargers and vice versa at least as far as engine thermals are concerned?

Some other notes:

Thermals have some oddities in them in general:
- Exhaust manifold is always cooler than Turbocharger temperature which is odd, because it comes before the turbo and as such should be hotter.
- Exhaust manifold temperature seems pretty cold compared to real life values. It is a bit hard to find information on this but from my knowledge it is something like this:
Diesel @ idle: 200 - 250 °C
Diesel @ wide open throtte: 550 - 650 °C
Petrol @ idle: 450 - 600 °C
Petrol @ wide open throttle: 1000 °C
Turbocharged Petrol @ wide open throttle: 1050 - 1200 °C (this is BTW why classical petrol turbo engines guzzle fuel like mad, to avoid this temperature from melting the catalytic converter additional fuel has to be added to decrease exhaust temperature which will significantly increase consumption and ruin emissions because the mixture is way to rich for the converter to handle. Hence many modern petrol turbo engines water cool the turbocharger to avoid the need to enrich the mixture which will avoid that significant fuel consumption by keeping both turbo and following that the converter at a safe operating temperature. Sometimes both exhaust manifold and turbo charger are water cooled.

The way the turbochargers operates in games, makes it perfectly possible to have a stationary turbo even though the engine is at significant load. For example turbocharged cars above a certain power level, may operate at such low engine loads to maintain speed, that the ingame turbo spins down all the way to zero. This is probably not very realistic but I understand may be a limitation of how the system works ingame.

A bit more explanation about different values in the forced induction debug app and how different types of superchargers work, would be nice.

Click to expand...

This is because the game apparently does not simulate the existence of an intercooler/air to water cooler/interchiller in superchargers in general

supardianto · Jun 28, 2024

floating charging station bug.

Somerandomperson60 · Jun 29, 2024

beamn driver said: ↑

And so I found a few problems with this update.
1. The image quality in the left mirror is worse than the image quality in the right one.But for right-hand drive cars it is the same.
2. On the map of the west coast, traffic cars run red lights at some traffic lights.Namely, on those where there is an additional turn section on the roof.After the update, the green light does not change to yellow, but flashes for a long time and during its flashing, traffic cars start moving, but at a red light on the main section.

There are also not enough speed cameras on highways and there is only one camera on the map that reacts to driving through a red light
--- Post updated ---
sunburst has the worst interior textures of all cars.

sunburst has the worst interior textures of all cars.
Click to expand...

The second problem I’m having too if not everyone is Problaby having this issue hope the devs will fix this issue soon!

Ibi5hu · Jun 30, 2024

what does vulkan change?
i dont see any differences

hacker420 · Jun 30, 2024

Ibi3huC9vetFAN3456 said: ↑

what does vulkan change?
i dont see any differences
Click to expand...

allows for further graphical improvements and better performance. also it's used for the Linux build.

Koichiro Iketani · Jun 30, 2024

Ibi3huC9vetFAN3456 said: ↑

what does vulkan change?
i dont see any differences
Click to expand...

It's a different way of rendering the graphics, the actual graphics are the same but Vulkan uses less CPU and more GPU

Ibi5hu · Jul 1, 2024

hacker420 said: ↑

allows for further graphical improvements and better performance. also it's used for the Linux build.
Click to expand...

where is the graphical improvement

Koichiro Iketani said: ↑

It's a different way of rendering the graphics, the actual graphics are the same but Vulkan uses less CPU and more GPU
Click to expand...

ok

Bauer33333 · Jul 2, 2024

Ibi3huC9vetFAN3456 said: ↑

where is the graphical improvement
Click to expand...

It allows for them to be added, ot doesn't have them yet

clutchyt · Jul 2, 2024

Musicman27 said: ↑

The game is called Beam.NG Drive not Beam.NG Fly. So probably no vanilla planes.
Click to expand...

Actually sir, its "BeamNG.drive"

Vantello · Jul 2, 2024

clutchyt said: ↑

Actually sir, its "BeamNG.drive"
Click to expand...

Umm Actually, Its BeamNG.drive

clutchyt · Jul 2, 2024

Vantello said: ↑

Umm Actually, Its BeamNG.drive
Click to expand...

fair enough

clutchyt · Jul 2, 2024

What font did you use?

Vantello · Jul 3, 2024

clutchyt said: ↑

What font did you use?
Click to expand...

Default, just made it bold, and coloured it.

LegThePeg · Jul 3, 2024

Koichiro Iketani said: ↑

I believe that's a config made for a campaign, maybe you have enabled custom configs in the vehicle menu
Click to expand...

Yep, that’s the custom config made to tow the Covet Guineapig in a scenario

Ibi5hu · Jul 3, 2024

Bauer33333 said: ↑

It allows for them to be added, ot doesn't have them yet
Click to expand...

oh thx

Pr9tkin · Jul 5, 2024

Is this how it should be? that changing the brake pads changes the appearance of the brake disc in the widgets? It's not logical and confusing... replacing the brake disc does not change anything...

EUDM fanboy · Jul 5, 2024

If your pc is not connected to the internet, then you open BeamNG, then connect it to the internet, the repo still gives the “no internet” error.

LegThePeg · Jul 5, 2024

Pr9tkin said: ↑

Is this how it should be? that changing the brake pads changes the appearance of the brake disc in the widgets? It's not logical and confusing... replacing the brake disc does not change anything...
Click to expand...

I would think it's intentional. Why else would it have multiple different versions otherwise?

Pr9tkin · Jul 5, 2024

LegThePeg said: ↑

I would think it's intentional. Why else would it have multiple different versions otherwise?
Click to expand...

Well think to yourself, a brake disk and pads are different things, I think in the distant past this might have been done on purpose but it's not really logical, a brake disk should have a different animation in the widget but not pads

LegThePeg · Jul 5, 2024

Pr9tkin said: ↑

Well think to yourself, a brake disk and pads are different things, I think in the distant past this might have been done on purpose but it's not really logical, a brake disk should have a different animation in the widget but not pads
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, that makes sense. I thought you meant that changing the brake disk changed what type of brakes they are.

That is strange.

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