Audio Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nadeox1, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. dvigatel

    dvigatel
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    I propose adding sounds of transmission to the game - gearboxes, rear axle gears and more .. Some cars, even new ones, have an inherent design flaw - the transmission howls, for example, as in this car.
    start time 2:10
     
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  2. Cento186

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    Apologies for posting this twice, but I see it belongs here rather than in the 0.19 update thread.

    I just wanted to add that the crackling effect on overrun is fantastic but I think the off throttle engine/exhaust noise needs reviewing as it's far too quiet in my opinion.

    Most notable is with the Vivace Hillclimb/race models, brilliantly loud under power but off throttle and when down changing it's like the engine has been switched off despite being at 6-7k rpm.

    All the cars are like this to some extent but another good example would be the Covet, can fit tuned engine parts to it and raise the rev limit up and it sounds great but then changing down for a corner and it goes almost silent. It sounds as if there is zero exhaust noise unless throttle is applied, which in reality is wrong and I think this spoils the game a little :(
     
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  3. SebastianJDM

    SebastianJDM
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    @TDK
    i know this probably isn't the best place to post this suggestion, but it's the only place where i'm positive it'll be listened to:

    the new i3 sound is really good, and suits the new cars quite well. however, the pigeon's i3 sound on the diesel engine really doesn't fit it. it's fine on the 600cc gas engine, but i think the "new" i3 sound is a lot more "diesel-ish" than the currently used pigeon sound. maybe put in a word to swap it out? maybe i'm wrong, we'll see if anyone gives me any agree ratings.

    i added versions of the two pigeon engines but using the new i3 sound, and it fits quite well for both honestly. the muffled version sounds good for the diesel, and if you rip the exhaust off it sounds quite nice for the 600 as well. idk haha.
     
    #383 SebastianJDM, Apr 9, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
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  4. TDK

    TDK
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    We have transmission whine already. Both the whine generated at the gearbox input, from the engine, which follows the RPM of the engine, and the gearbox output, to the drivetrain, which increases with speed.

    You will also hear some rattling inside the gearbox, as it goes through positive and negative load, primarily with the modded and race cars.

    The whine is most noticable with our sequential gearboxes, but you can still hear some bleed through in the manuals. If there are specific vehicles where you feel it should be louder, do let us know and we'll review them.
    --- Post updated ---
    Have passed this feedback to Corey, who assigned and balanced the engines to the cars.
    --- Post updated ---
    I think this is quite subjective, so let me give you my thoughts.

    Most of us drivers do not drive around full throttle all of the time, in fact, under normal driving hardly ever - so we don't hear a greater difference between on and off load. When playing the game, we do tend to use full throttle a lot more.

    Turbo charged vehicles also tend to have a greater difference in volume between on and off load. I'm talking general vehicles here, not modded or race cars with straight through exhausts.

    Also keep in mind that we are not yet recording our own source material for the vehicle engines and exhausts. We are licensing them from a specific company because of our requirement for unmuffled versions. The jbeam system for setting up vehicles in game is also not "vehicle model" specific, so there is no specific engine/exhaust set for a hillclimb or rally variation (or anything else).
     
    #384 TDK, Apr 9, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
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  5. Confused_Deer43

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    Excellent work on the latest audio updates!
    Is there any plan to use the I4 for the cherrier on any other vehicles?

    Also not that I have much experience in real life, but the D-series offroad suspension is almost inaudible compared to a street vehicle, wouldn't it make a bit of noise going over some rough bumps?
     
  6. TDK

    TDK
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    I don't see why not for the Cherrier i4..

    Suspension..yes.. to be honest, I'm finding a LOT where this is an issue - I'm struggling to keep up. I fixed the off road hoppers only a couple of days ago, so I'll get on the D series again. Any others, please do let me know.
     
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  7. Confused_Deer43

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    Cool, I'll keep it in mind
     
  8. dvigatel

    dvigatel
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    Probably misunderstood. I mean, not the sounds of the gears turning on, but the sounds of the rotation of the mechanisms themselves inside the box. Here's an example of how this is done in one game.

    If you listen carefully, there are 3 independent sounds - the noise from the wheels, the sound of a diesel engine and the howling sound of a transmission, which is very loud because the gearbox is very noisy on such tractors. With an increase in load, the sound of a transmission (especially in low gears) becomes louder, with an increase in speed, the tonality increases In BeamNG there are so far only two sounds - the sound of tires and the sound of the engine, and for example, making a tractor with this sound will not work.
    Sometimes even passenger cars howl box))
     
  9. SebastianJDM

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    your post was really well put together, and i'm sorry to say this, but you're super wrong. beamng does this already. just drive any sequential gearbox car and you'll hear it. on passenger cars this also occurs, just much quieter. just as you described. it's subtle but still there. pretty noticeable in the pigeon iirc.
     
  10. TYLERTJ

    TYLERTJ
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    @TDK you’re doing an outstanding job. The sound updates are always my favorite parts in an update. The exhaust crackle and pops from the new Vivace race variants are incredible.
     
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  11. TDK

    TDK
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    Is this not what I'm calling transmission whine? In the tractor video, I'm hearing engine, whine and something jangly (which I don't know enough about tractor powertrains to say what it is. In the 2nd video I'm hearing engine and the out-gearbox whine.... what am I missing?
     
  12. dvigatel

    dvigatel
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    Simply put, make the sound of the gears on the principle that is implemented in version 0.18 - in rear gears there is the sound of a gearbox. Just not for one gearbox, but so that you can assign a sound to any mechanism - for example, the rear differential, cardan, transfer case .. I hope you understand)))
     

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  13. TDK

    TDK
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    Thank you. Combined effort of myself and Seb creating the various samples (except the raw engine/exhaust samples which we licence) and the the code and physics playing back the samples. Good code and crappy samples maketh a poor sounding game, as does good samples and crappy code.....
    --- Post updated ---
    I missed this ;)
    --- Post updated ---
    I think the in/out whine and rattles are enough for the time being. These are the apparent sounds. I don't think I could ever find examples of the sound of a drive shaft - apart from a broken one of course.

    We've added more since 0.18. Only sequentials were supported there, but now all manuals do as well - they're just mainly very subtle sounding. I'd rather spend time (when there is some) to create so different in/out whines for a bit of variation.
     
    #393 TDK, Apr 9, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
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  14. SebastianJDM

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    something i've been wanting is to have the ability to add the gear whine to a differential. it's not super common, but sometimes fully built racing differentials use straight cut gears, and i believe old mini coopers did as well. would be a nice addition to the piccolina. also, not sure if this is still true, but gear whine didn't seem to affect automatic transmissions last i checked, which was the last big update to the function, when it seemed to be added to all manual transmissions. my boss's diesel work truck is a 4-speed auto, and it whines pretty noticeably off-throttle in first gear and a bit in second.

    on the topic of audio suggestions, it would be wise to record some sound samples of different tire rolling sounds. i'm not "very in-the-know" but i'd be willing to bet that in the future, off-road tires will buzz or hum more, and more loudly, than street tires. it's something i strongly believe could add immersion and realism, and would be quite welcome with all of the new more advanced offroad vehicles recently (hopper crawler, d-series parts, the new teased truck coming soon). maybe the only thing halting this addition is the lack of sound samples to use? surely if this is the case, you guys would have the power to speed up the process.

    also, speaking of the pigeon from earlier, it's gone through a lot of sound changes. i understand that recording car sounds can be costly, time consuming, and even frustrating at times. but what's stopping you guys from recording some i3 diesel sounds? is it your location? in the states, some lawn mowers use this engine type. kubota being a popular manufacturer. i understand the dev team is based in europe, but surely there's some type of farming machinery that would use this engine type and could be borrowed for a couple afternoons.

    not to be rude or anything :) i understand it's a lot of work. it's just that sound is one of my favorite parts of realistic type games. i think the pigeon is super neglected. if it does end up getting remastered in the near-future, i'd love to see an official diesel i3 sound for it, that won't have to be changed in the future.
     
  15. MTKush

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    Are we able to use FMOD .banks yet? I really hope this update allowed us too! Super stoked! You have no idea! @TDK
     
  16. Diamondback

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    We made necessary preparations for this. At some point in the future there will be some first tests with modders. No ETA yet.
     
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  17. The Shotty

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    Would you ever consider recording car samples yourself if you ever got the resources?

    Side note: I remember reading somewhere that the sound devs from Burnout Paradise actually went to a junkyard and smashed up car pieces to get sounds for the game, which i thought was pretty interesting
     
  18. MTKush

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    When you say test do you mean limited amount of people with access? Thanks for the information!
     
  19. Confused_Deer43

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    So I spent the morning using headphones to try and help out with any sound issues, first of all I have to say this again, using speakers just doesn't do the audio work justice, the amount of detail in each sound and sounds you just don't pick up using speakers is crazy.
    Sadly using speakers and the game aiming for realism means that engine sounds will always be significantly louder than ambient sounds and other little details, but even then it sounds great and the realism here just adds to the experience, gear whine, turn signals, suspension, turbo, engine, ambient, the reverb and all are great. Excellent job guys.

    So a few things I noticed, some cars have much quieter suspension than others as I mentioned yesterday, the ones I noticed are the I-series, D-series, Hopper (not the crawler that works great), and Roamer. You can't hear the suspension over the engine sounds on these ones.

    The new glass sounds are great but it seems like some samples are too loud or too subtle, breaking a large window can sometimes only sound like a light was smashed.

    The new crash sounds have that realistic thump to them you'd hear echo down the street and that sound triggering issue will help.

    That speed related audio wobble seems to be gone and that's great!

    The wind at high speeds sounds excellent on the hood camera, it really adds to the thrill of going fast, but I feel it could be louder for chase view since in that case you're again outside of the vehicle.

    The ambient sounds (small island at least) are really good, but could maybe be a liiittle louder, driving with an open window in summer can be pretty loud on a windy day, and crickets are pretty loud when near them.

    All in all thanks for your great work here, hope this helps!
     
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  20. TDK

    TDK
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    • Gear whine for auto's - you'd need to talk to @Diamondback about that from a code POV.
    • Tyres - yes, we've discussed supporting different types of tyres a number of times, not just for the roll sound on hard surfaces, but to differentiate with the skid sound as well. So... discussed but not designed or implemented as yet. I can't say if it will, or when.
    • We're not recording any eng/exh sounds at all currently and am licensing them throught a 3rd party, Sonory. Historically this is a cost saving reason as we don't have the sort of budgets as some of the big boys, but more recently there has also been a technical reason because of how we are supporting the unmuffled exhausts. We can't currently do this with traditionally recording vehicles. Solving this is something I'm still looking in to as a background task to see if I can resolve it. If I can, I'd love to start recording our own sounds. Although I've not recorded the more recent cars, I did many of the the cars in DiRT 2, DiRT 3, and F1 2009 until 2015.
      Do keep in mind though, that loud vehicles are great to record on track (my preferred way of recording) but many of our vehicles are very quiet stock/showroom vehicles. Recording these on either track or a traditional rolling road would be inherently (very) difficult, which then leaves the options to something like a Dynapack which has no inertia, so you can't record decelerations/off load samples. I'd still be cool to compromise and just record the modded/race versions of course ;)
    --- Post updated ---
    • Yes, definately, once we've solved the issue of how to "unmuffle" any recordings we make, and how to record quiet stock/showroom cars which would be too problematic both on track or on a dyno.... I talk a bit more about this in the above post.
    • Yes that's right, actually one of their audio programmers was my audio programmer on DiRT 2. We also recorded in a breakers yard for the DiRT impact sounds. I wanted to do it again more recently, but my breakers yard of choice shut down :(
    --- Post updated ---
    • Interesting - what do you think about the panning of soundswith headphones? It is quite wrong, and I'm surprised more people haven't picked up on it yet. At the moment, the audio system thinks the "speakers" are at 30 degree angles from the listener, but of course headphone speakers are at 90 degrees so we should be compensating for this... which we are not currently..... anyway.
    • Yes, suspension.... it's an ongoing task.. I'll check those out, thank you
    • All glass impacts are using the same set of samples, there are 11 of them. The strength of the impact determins where within the sample we start playing the sound. Smaller ones start half way through, as a rough explanation, but yes, it's not quite right yet. I think it may need some code love as well as audio design love.
    • One of my big issues.... is that we can't tell if a vehicle has a roof or not, or if it has windows which are closed, open, broken etc.... don't worry... it is a BIG problem for me and it is on the list to be sorted out by code.
    • Thanks for all the feedback, and the positive words too! :)
     
    #400 TDK, Apr 14, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
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