BeamNG Realistic Community Lore Project.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MrAnnoyingDude, Sep 28, 2019.

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What should AMM's Australian cars be called?

  1. Gavril

    11 vote(s)
    7.8%
  2. Beaufort

    123 vote(s)
    87.2%
  3. Other name (post in the thread)

    7 vote(s)
    5.0%
  1. Shotgun Chuck

    Shotgun Chuck
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    The problem with it is that Gavril's and Bruckell's products are too similar. You can't have a car company where the divisions are constantly stepping on each other; that's part of what killed GM from the 1980s onward.

    I'm still almost 100% sure they're doing it to save work on assets. I would try to ask but I've had trouble getting "official" answers to similar inquiries before. Whatever, I'll @ a bunch of them anyway. @gabester @synsol @Nadeox1 who else am I forgetting?
     
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  2. Capkirk

    Capkirk
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    I agree that Bruckell and Gavril really should be separate. The shared engine models is probably to save on resources. Although it's hard to say for sure, since the limited number of vehicles in game means there's pretty much 1 vehicle per archetype, Gavril and Bruckell seem to be pretty separate. For example, the Moonhawk V8 could be a larger displacement of the Barstow big block, but the Moonhawk I6 is unique to the Moonhawk despite being similar displacement to the Barstow I6, implying it is a different engine family. Similarly, the Bruckell V6s aren't in any Gavril vehicle, with Gavril using I6s in the Roamer well past the point most manufacturers switched to V6s.
     
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  3. Shotgun Chuck

    Shotgun Chuck
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    I do agree here, though I will admit one thing: at one point, before regulators finally ruined everyone's fun in the early 1980s, it was common for different divisions of a single manufacturer to have different engines. It gave those divisions reason to exist, and the fact that this became uneconomical to do any more is likely part of the reason why GM and eventually Ford had to shed brands. Similarly, most companies use a different 6-cylinder for light trucks relative to passenger cars.

    I do still believe that Gavril and Bruckell are separate, but had to admit this in the interests of fairness.
     
  4. CaptainZoll

    CaptainZoll
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    to me it also just seems weird that all of the american cars in game so far are under one brand.
     
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  5. Shotgun Chuck

    Shotgun Chuck
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    That, too.
     
  6. MrAnnoyingDude

    MrAnnoyingDude
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    Quite a few issues with it, like the presence of multiple Euro Gavril subsidiaries (and why the main one housed in Paris? and why so old), Gavril's mysterious links with a company making "everyday stuff", Gavril India and Brazil being too big (and Brazil too ne)
    @Falkrum
    --- Post updated ---
    Though the 3.8 is a passenger car engine. The 3800 V6 didn't come into Tahoes either.
    --- Post updated ---
    In terms of another US automaker, I already explained my ideas:

     
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  7. KrukasKlep

    KrukasKlep
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    Well, To me almost all American cars look all the same, and just pretty ''mediocre'' (i do not care about salty responses) Because they are just litterally just the same cars with a different badge.
     
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  8. MrAnnoyingDude

    MrAnnoyingDude
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    My reaction:
     
  9. TubroTerra

    TubroTerra
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    1st None automaker sort of...

    PlsHelp.png

    Delta GmBh

    Euro Stock DCA

    Delta Is German Hardware Maker,Automaker Based In Gorugh,Germany It Makes Computers,Cars,Trucks,Smartphones.
    Founed In 1871 As GIC-Which Means German Industrial Company Durning WW2 They Worked For The German Army.
    After WW2 They Grew Larger Become Delta They Also Joined Gavril At The Time.
    They Also Went to Make Computers In 2016 Gavril Spin-Offed Delta To Become at it Own.
    Sadly Today there No Longer Big.
    #6 Largest Auto Maker In Germany,Worldwide.
    #15 Largest Computer Maker Worldwide.
    Subsidiary's
    Delta Of North America:Based In Belseco,Smallest Automaker in US 15th Largest Computer Maker In US.
    Delta Of Asia:Based In Japan.

    Sorry for Poor Stuff :( I will change it
     
  10. MrAnnoyingDude

    MrAnnoyingDude
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    Theory: maybe Bruckell did a tech trade with AMM in the engine department, in order to meet emission requirements (which would have been impossible with their engines)?

    Ideas on what they traded for the engines is something that I'll leave up to you.
     
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  11. DriftinCovet1987

    DriftinCovet1987
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    I found a goldmine of info over on this little replacement for the wiki: https://documentation.beamng.com/vehicle_system/vehicles/index.html

    So, BeamNG has assigned certain "populations" to every trim of every vehicle in BeamNG.drive (save for the Powerglow vehicles and the Covet Beater). Here are the most interesting things that I've found out about the vehicles from this information:

    *The D-Series currently stands as the most-populous vehicle, with a total of 351,380 examples. The '96 Pessima is in a close second, with 341,750^ 302,220. The Bolide is the least-populous, at just 269 examples total, with the Miramar (3,730)' Burnside (2,300) and Pigeon (3,800)" Miramar (3,730) rounding out the podium.

    *Automatics are favored over manuals as much as 5:1 on vehicles like the Roamer, but manuals are more common on the Miramar are the Hopper.

    *Four-wheel-drive and all-wheel-drive seems to hurt sales and/or survival in the Beamverse; almost every trim with four-wheel-drive less population than their two-wheel-drive siblings, while some (like the D25 4WDs) have only half or less than the equivalent two-wheel-drive trims.

    *The '96 Pessima has the two most-populous trims in the entire game (the DX and LX automatics, 100,000 examples each), while the Covet has the third (DX, 80,000) and fourth (DXi auto, 60,000). The '96 Pessima DX manual, at 50,000 examples, is fifth. At 340,000 examples altogether, the top-four trims make up more than half of the 660,462 Ibishus in the Beamverse - and they would come very close to toppling the D-Series' 49 counterparts.

    *The '88 Pessima looks to have been claimed hard by rust and wear-and-tear. At only 39,550 units altogether, with only the LX auto breaking the 10K barrier, it has barely a ninth of its '96 brother's population.

    ^EDIT: Accidentally included the '88 and '96 Pessimas in the previous '96 Pessima population.
    ' and " EDITS: Forgot the Burnside in my counts.
     
    #31 DriftinCovet1987, Oct 1, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
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  12. MrAnnoyingDude

    MrAnnoyingDude
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    Where is it on the page?
     
  13. DriftinCovet1987

    DriftinCovet1987
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    I edited the link to the one for the vehicle and prop list. Currently, there's limited information on the Grand Marshal and T-Series (and none at all on the Bluebuck), but there's still plenty of stuff there that I think could be used for lore-building. I made an Excel spreadsheet of all the population statistics that I've been able to find so far (everything but the three aforementioned Gavrils), but I'm probably going to have to put it in a Google Doc for accessibility.
     
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  14. Alex_Farmer557

    Alex_Farmer557
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    Ooh yes documentation
     
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  15. MrAnnoyingDude

    MrAnnoyingDude
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    I've had an idea of for the AMM/Bruckell difference.

    AMM would make the more technologically advanced and solid cars, but have a more conservative approach to design and higher pricing.

    Bruckell would compensate for having simpler and less reliable mechanicals with lower prices and inventive cars - the first personal luxury cars (1955 Albatross and 1956... well, some sort of fictional Continental Mark II), first pony car (1964 Bruckell Crotalo), first minivan (1976 Bruckell Roundell - Ford Carousel protoype-inspired), first downsized car (1977 fullsizes), or first US transverse FWD cars (1978 compacts).

    Let's have a primitive form of voting: rate Agree if you agree, and Informative if you disagree.
     
    #35 MrAnnoyingDude, Oct 2, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
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  16. DriftinCovet1987

    DriftinCovet1987
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    So, as part of my examination into the customer, collector, and motorsport side of Beam lore, I've been looking into what sort of vehicles have fewer than 50 examples left, as well as what kinds of transmissions are the most popular, and here are the most interesting things I've found (these exclude the Bluebuck, Grand Marshal, T-Series, and Wentward Ram Bus):

    *The overall least-populous trim in the Beamverse is the Wentward Hero, with 1 example. The Covet Skidplate (2 examples) is next, with the Bolide Polizia, Notte, Group 4, and the I-Series Knallhart in a four-way tie for third (3 examples each).

    *The Sunburst has the highest number of 50-and-under trims, with seven of those with fewer than 10 examples. It also has the highest percentage of 50-and-under trims (12/20, 60%) and the rarest police cars (Gendarmarie and Police RS, 5 units each). However, the Sunburst has the most-populous rally trims (50 units each), with the Covet Rally (40 units) in second.

    *The I-Series claims the most production 50-and-under trims (four). The least-populous production trim is the 2400tix Evo, with just 5 examples. The Bolide 390 GTR (10 examples) is second, and the 2400ti Evo (15 examples) in third. The 2400tix TTSports (20 pre-facelifts, 40 facelifts) round out the top five.

    *Of the 22 unique transmissions in BeamNG.drive, the most-populous are four-speed automatics (649,725), five-speed manuals (405,658), and four-speed manuals (119,202), with six-speed automatics (62,501) and manuals (33,950) The least-populous transmissions are four-speed drag automatics (40), sequentials (80), five-speed race manuals (170), six-speed ETK TTSport manuals (350), and six-speed race manuals (504).

    *The 6-speed transmission has the most number of variants (6: automatic, DCT, manual, diesel manual, TTSport Manual, and race manual), while the five-speed manual has the second-most number of variants (5: standard, diesel, high-efficiency, race, and V6).

    *The 800 Series has the most unique transmissions, with two manuals (the TTSport and diesel 6-speed manuals) reserved exclusively for it. Four-speed (766,967 units), five-speed (418,028), and six-speed (109,995) transmissions are in 92% of Beam's 1.42 million vehicles, with the others taking up 8% combined.
    upload_2019-10-2_16-51-49.png
     
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  17. Shotgun Chuck

    Shotgun Chuck
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    So, looking at everyone's analysis of it, I'm... kind of surprised by some of the populations BeamNG gives.

    First, 4WD and AWD being less popular doesn't seem right to me. Maybe it's just because I'm in Alaska but just about every truck I see is a 4x4 and there are plenty of AWDs as well.

    Second, anyone who thought the Bolide wasn't supposed to be a halo car was wrong. Super wrong. But a mere 10 units of the 390 GTR still strikes me as very low. I would have assumed a limited-edition homologation special based on the Group 4 version would have had more built than that... say 100 coupes, 75 targas, and 25 convertibles. Granted, then you end up with 200 of a limited edition of an already limited supercar, but if you assume that they weren't originally planning on building further-spiced versions of the open tops and did it to satisfy demand from their most loyal customers, it makes a little more sense. Overall, I'd probably assumed (without thinking much about it) a total production of perhaps 2-3,000 units over the car's lifespan, with anywhere from 1,200-2,000 still remaining; this isn't exactly a disposable generosedan after all.

    Third, I'm surprised trims like the Notte and Knallhart have multiple specimens extant; I was sure those were modified post-purchase and thus unique by definition (in fact I have referred to those as well as the Demon and Nightsnake as "named customs" in the past). I know from personal experience that the Knallhart in particular overheats like a custom, and the Notte has utterly awful handling that no factory would ever release onto the market. Another example: the Autobello Street Machine is clearly stated to have been "modified for straight line speed" (italics mine), but yet there are 20 of them around. If that's to mean 20 all alike, that's just a bit of a stretch, if that's a catch-all for every cheap-drag Autobello in the world, that seems pretty low considering that one of its inspirations, the VW Beetle, was and to some degree still is a major fixture of drag-mad American car culture. Many of these are explicitly list as "custom" under their config-type field. However there is a possibility that the numbers are not final yet due to the rough state of the documentation and the quantity of "nice round numbers" given. Furthermore, do note some inconsistencies; some police cars are "Service" while other are "Factory" (and same with taxis), the ETK 856t Driving Experience is "Factory" while the Ibishu Covet Student Driver is "Custom", some rally cars are "Factory" while others are "Custom", etc. Again, @gabester @Nadeox1 @synsol @Falkrum

    Anyway, assuming the Moonhawk Detective Special's designation of "Service" can be trusted at this point, there probably was an official Police Package for the Moonhawk. Also assuming the designation of "Custom" can be trusted at this point, it would appear that stabilizers were not a factory option on the Pigeon (then again, the street cleaner version is listed as "Factory" so who knows).

    (Yep, I'm officially That Guy now. You know, the annoying superfan who gets emotionally attached to game lore and analyzes developer-produced media as if it were the Zapruder film.)
     
    #37 Shotgun Chuck, Oct 3, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
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  18. MrAnnoyingDude

    MrAnnoyingDude
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    But the Bolide does not have halo car performance - the base model outputs around 200 HP.

    Generally, the official numbers are somewhat unrealistic - if we assume the in-game cars to have the sales of real-life xounterparts, then only a bit over 10% of all D-Series, Bolides or newer Pessimas survive, yet nearly a quarter of 200SXs are still on the road.

    Seems that it's the dev numbers that are problematic.
     
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  19. Shotgun Chuck

    Shotgun Chuck
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    This is likely why I assumed higher production. The Bolide comes in several variants, the least of which would be an "entry level" supercar even by 1980s standards - it's mainly the 390 GTR that performs like a halo car. In this capacity, the Bolide actually rather resembles the Porsche 911 of the time.

    True. If my own experience is anything to go by, the survival rate of old trucks is much, much higher than that, even in climates where rust is a given. Meanwhile, you would expect the 200BX to have one of the lowest survival rates, given that it was directly inspired by the Nissan S-chassis which has long been a favorite machine among drifters of the "body damage is a trophy" mentality.

    I absolutely agree with you here, but I did just have a thought. Many - perhaps most - real-life cars are available in multiple body styles. Very few BeamNG cars, on the other hand, have this same luxury, and those that do usually don't have all the body styles they could (see D-series long bed). It is possible that the devs accounted for the possible existence of other trim levels and body styles which are either not in-game yet or never will be unless a modder hits a lucky guess. Still, though, some numbers (such as those for the ETK 2400tix ttSport and Evolution) are way too low, especially for a special model which is likely to have a lower-than-normal attrition rate.

    It is very possible that these numbers are nowhere near final. For example, if you look at the data for the Gavril Grand Marshal, it was obviously made before the 0.17.1 overhaul of that vehicle went live (old Custom, no Fleet/RoadSport/Lowrider) - possibly even before it was finalized? This is especially likely when you consider the overall rough condition of the documentation site. It seems very likely that we will see numbers adjusted as the documentation gets brought up to speed.
     
  20. DriftinCovet1987

    DriftinCovet1987
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    This is what strikes me as especially odd; assuming that the I-Series Evo was built for DTM homologation (and it most likely was, as it and the Race I-Series are similar to the Merc 190E Evo II), it had to have had at least 500 ti models and possibly 250-500 tix models built. If there are only 20 I-Series Evos left total, that puts its survival rate at 2-4%. Even if the I-Series Evo had been a total flop and horribly unreliable (which it could have been), and even if the I-Series itself had gained a negative reputation with the public and collectors (a la '80s GM/Chrysler), the Evo is still a special model of a (rather) special sedan.

    The first one's factory-customized for the ETK Driving Experience Center, while the second one was customized by third-party driving schools. It's likely that factory-modified vehicles are going to be classified under "Factory" to differentiate them from the homemade custom vehicles, but the inconsistent labeling of service and rally vehicles doesn't seem to support that notion.

    Yeah, that doesn't seem right to me, either, especially on the Roamer. Perhaps the cost and/or fuel economy hit of 4WD/AWD wasn't worth its extra utility to enough buyers? But that still doesn't make any sense.

    Another interesting thing about the D-Series is that while the L6 D15 and V8 D25 crew cabs have only 6,000 total units each (compared to 10,000 total units each for their ext. and standard cab variants), the D15 V8 ext. and crew cabs have 60,000 units each - double the 30,000 of the standard cab.

    The gap is even larger with the D15 V8 4WD, where ext. and crew cab models have 50,000 total units each, while the standard cab has only 20,000.

    Overall, either the Beamverse customers/collectors have some...interesting tastes, or the numbers are way off (which seems more likely).
     
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