Cherrier Vivace & Tograc

Because it’s the sport trim. It’s still not as sporty as the crossovers you’re talking about.

 

It has a sporty variant, but it isn't a BMW X3 competitor. It is similar to a Honda CRV or Toyota RAV4. Not sporty or fast. They may have a sport and/or offroad trim, but they aren't really capable at either because the main goal of the vehicle is to be basic transportation and good at commuting, not much else.

 

Sport is in the description of every crossover. Even big suvs have sport in them (sport utility vehicle). Sport is used widely these days to describe things that aren't even sporty. Also the 190 is a sportier trim, not a purpose built sports crossover. All they do to sports trims are bigger or different colored rims and slightly lowered suspension.

 

Ok ok ok. You proved your point, if anyone argues with me again, I think I will get a headache.

 

then don't start useless arguments that sound like they come from a 13yo entitled kid in the us that thinks all cars need to have more than 200hp or else they are slow

 

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Bruh these people were using simple real life facts about cars. You're the one that took it to heart. Now please don't respond to this because:

A. That'll be continuing this silly argument

B. I don't wanna hear it

C. It's derailing the thread

 

Honestly, I think the 3 cylinder has too much power and torque. Having an incredibly stripped down base model with non turbo 3 and 4 cylinders like a Dacia variant of a Renault would be really cool IMO.

 

The first day I tried the FCV one of my first thoughts was, "This is great, but why is everything so advanced?" A Vivace Start or something would be cool. Mediocre 3 cylinder, cheap analog interior and no LEDs anywhere. I mean I know WBIMP has one now but it's kinda strange that it wasn't there as base content from the jump.

 

there may be a remedy for that soon

 

69 Pages
anyway

 

I think most cars in most euro-asian economies have a max engine sise of 3.0lts, for eg, here in India, the Renault kwid (dacia spring) comes with 2 engines, one is an 800cc 3cyl with around 55-60hp, and the other is a 1.0l 3cyl with around 75hp.. not a lot, just recently we have "cheaper" cars producing more than 3 digit horsepower figures.. like the kia seltos, Tata Harrier, Hyundai's, mahindra, etc... Having around 120-180bhp ish.. with engine sizes going all the way from 800cc or 1.0l turbo 3 cyls, to 2.5ltr N/A or turbo 4 cyls..
The big brands like bmw, merc etc usually have more power coz of the name brand anyway.. but the budget sedans and SUVs mostly come with a max bhp of 120/140/180bhp.. although there r people who tune stuff all the way to 289bhp with the smaller engines..

If you guys think you have it with "low" horsepower.. but then again, our roads aren't as developed and neither are peoples driving skills here.. they all drive like they own the road..

OT: There are many mods for the vivace and tograc to get a boatload of power out of them.. personally, I like it when the tograc launches when having a lot of power.. . Squats like a G63 AMG lol

 

Forget what I said, I was just being an ignorant person. The Cherrier Tograc 190 horse power seems reasonable for a European car.

 

Base models in general are a bit lacking in some official cars

*Looking at you 1.1L base model Piccolina*

 

I respectfully disagree. For an engine that is likely based on Fords 1.0 I3 Ecoboost its performance stats are perfectly fine:

Vivace I3 Engine Stats:
Displacement: 1.2L
Torque: 185 Nm @1450 - 3700 RPM
Power: 109 HP @ 4600 - 5500 RPM

Real Life Ford Ecboost I3
Displacement: 1.0L
Low End version: 101 HP
Regular version: 125 HP Torque: 170Nm @ 1400 - 4500 RPM, Overboost of up to 200 Nm.
Fiesta Red version: 140 HP and 210 Nm


Keep in mind that the Vivace I3 has 0.2 L more displacement... which is technically a 20 % increase. Keep also in mind that the Vivace Engine is likely 2018 technology based while Ford initial Ecoboost was relased in 2012, indicating primary development phase in 2010. The Vivace Engine is a decade ahead of the initial ecoboost.

Also keep in mind that modern car engines power output is a conscious choice by the manufacturer that is usually way way below what is technically possible even in a mass produced vehicle.

Also... 3 Cylinders and 1.2 L is 0,4L per cylinder... that is identical to the displacement of the popular 1,6L Inline 4 engine very popular in the last decade. Those 4 Cylinder engines are all quite capable of well beyond 200 HP..... so even when "missing" a cylinder there is little reason why an direct injected turbocharged engine using the latest technology in class should be more than 25 % behind this.

A non turbo engine - of which Ford ironically made an ecboost variant of with 65 - 80 HP is both additional manufacturing effort (you need an reprogrammed ECU for a non turbo version) and will probably struggle to gain marketshare as the niche "low power but in comparsion very high fuel consumption" is rather small.

For a cheap profitable car.... you want to mass produce things as much as possible...... this is how VW can get so cheap on electric drivetrains and battery besides being a decade behind Tesla....... sheer scale of production. Additional manufacturing steps as such are preferably reserved for the more expensive end of the line up.... no the bottom end. For a low end car... you want as much mass production as possible and as little extra effort as possible..... or the material price savings will be lost in the increased manufacturing effort.

It is a european 2020 car..... that is probaby built in France and supposed to compete with other european manufacturers for market share..... good luck surviving on that market with a german like price tag and technology looking even just as dated as an 2004 Sunburst. It wont work.....

A non turbo engine could be interesting and realistic for emerging markets.... but the anolog interior and no LED options doesnt make much sense in terms of economy even there:

Using an analog dashboard only for the starter edition will almost certainly be more expensive for the manufacturer than placing the same million times produced digital screens, too. Keep in mind that screens have become incredible cheap in the last decade while an anolog dashboard costs arround a 1000 Euros.... yes I speak from painful personal experience.

There is also the marketing issue... a lot of people buying dirt cheap cars dont really want that fact communicated in loud screaming to the rest of the world..... Buy a Vivace with anolog dashes that screams "I am poor" or buy an Ibushi for the same price tag that at least pretends to be not the lowest offer.

Same for LED lights..... you need to redesign a significant part of the car to make non LED work... that is extra cost..... for the cheapest least profitable variant of the car you are going to sell? Unlikely. You want the cheapest option available.... and that is almost certainly going to be the same hardware that you build into millions of other cars already.

 

Mate, you are from Europe right?

I can find many 2020 cars that come without Digital Dashboard and/or without LED (mostly Higher Trims have Digital Dashboard and/or LED, but even then not all have them. Yes, even in Japan and other Markets.).
The list is as follows: Proton Saga, Daihatsu Hijet, Daihatsu Hijet Caddie, Daihatsu Hijet Cargo, Suzuki Carry, Honda Acty, Daihatsu Boon, Toyota Passo, Toyota HiAce, Toyota Yaris (Bottom Trims), Daihatsu Ayla, Toyota Agya, Lada Vesta, Lada Granta, Lada Niva, Lada 4x4, Toyota Vios, Proton Persona, Perodua Myvi, Perodua Alza, Toyota HiLux, Daihatsu Sigra, Toyota Calya, many Vans and Pickups sold by China Brands in China, Toyota Avanza, Daihatsu Xenia, Toyota Kijang Innova, Hyundai Reina, Kia Pegas, Kia K2, Hyundai Verna, Hyundai Accent, Hyundai Aura, Hyundai Santro, Hyundai Celesta, Hyundai Solati, Hyundai Porter, Hyundai i10, Hyundai i20, Kia Morning, Kia Ray, Kia KX Cross, Ford Figo, Ford Ka, Nissan NV350 Caravan, Tata Tiago, Mahindra Bolero, Mahindra TUV300, Mahindra XUV500, Honda Brio, Honda Amaze, Honda Mobilio, Honda BR-V, Honda WR-V, Daihatsu Gran Max. There may be heaps more that I have not found yet, so you can not say that other Markets outside Europe, or even in Europe like Russia, do not have cars with Digital Dashboard and/or LED.

 

I agree that the base Vivace is a bit upscale for a base C-segment French car : Full screen gauge cluster, LED all the way around, 4 electric windows... But it is not unreallistic, for instance the new Clio has LED headlights on the base trim (and it is a B-segment car).

Base Peugeot are still equiped like cars from 20 years ago but it is not the case for all the manufacturers.

Imagine the time that Beam devs would spend to design all the pieces for a base trim: gauge cluster, headlights... And if they do it for the Vivace, they would have to do it for the Pessima (crank windows for the DX), the ETK 800 (no navi and crank windows at the back for the base trims)... A lot of work for not very important things!

 

true, though they did make both options for winder and electric windows for the pre and mid facelift D series, so it's not completely out of the question.

 

The Tograc sport's ECU retards the boost to a mediocre 0.7bar at 1st gear, even with AWD(no slip with 1.5bar boost), making initial acceleration and climbing slopes very bad. It's better to climb backwards actually

 

It is more or less the same on real cars, especially with diesel engines. My 2.2 diesel CR-V with AWD does the same.
Manufacturers do that in order to protect the clutch and others mechanical parts, even with AWD.

However I find the ESC on Tograc/Vivace quite intrusive, it can really cuts a lot of power.