Gavril T75

Shouldn't the T series be T85/T95 instead of T65/T75? T65/T75 would place it at the class 6/7 medium duty instead of class 8 heavy duty or class 9 severe duty.

 

The '6' and '7' in the model names of the T-series are unrelated to the truck class - they're merely a numerical marketing designation that only serves to designate a paticular model in a manufacturer's lineup.

In a similar vein, the Peterbilt 365, 359, and 362, as well as the Kenworth T600 and T400 series trucks are all class 8.

 

I know, but D20/D25/H25 are class 2b, D30/D35/H35 are class 3, D45 and H45 are class 4 and so on.

 

this, the 200bx, bolide, and the grand marshal need some love xP

 

Grand Marshall recently got a rework, and the 200BX has plenty of customization. The bolide is getting some love, check out some of the earlier posts in the Update Speculation thread.
As for the T-Series, it has enough content for now that it's relatively low on the priority list.

 

I would argue that the T-Series is actually in a very lackluster state content wise. I expect it is very low priority for her remaster since she's fine in terms of quality (there are some issues, such as the lack of skin options on the box uplift) and better off for content quantity than most of the older cars in game, but once her day comes there is a ton of stuff we can get.

As you alluded to, a 9 year model range for a truck like this is a bit questionable. Most similar trucks from companies like Peterbuilt and Kenworth have at minimum over double that model year range. I'm not saying it's unrealistic, as that was nearly the same model years as the Chevy Bison and not all that far off the International Transtar 4X00. But in a game where official vehicles take 9 months to make, the team really should be getting the most out of the vehicles they have made.

As for factory content, there's a fair bit we could see, including chassis layouts (such as a triple axle) and cab options (integrated sleeper would be great to see). There are several uplift options as well. Camper/movie film crew truck, crane (dedicated or integrated with the flatbed), utility uplift for the SWB, a wrecker (full sized or a SWB tow truck), and so on.

Customizing trucks is a huge part of truck culture and we really don't have much at all to personalize the semi with. We are missing some really basic stuff here, such as rear fenders, wheel/tire options, and colorable front fenders (the standard two tone does color the fenders but I'm not counting it since it also colors other parts of the cab). Honestly, the sun visor, bug shield, bull bar, and a couple of exhaust options are really all we have here. Such a vehicle really ought to be fairly high on the customizability scale. Just google truck shows or look at stuff driving down the interstate. Lights, fancy interiors, stretched frames, and more are all commonplace.

More controversially, we could really use configs other than class 6/7/8 highway trucks. I know certain people would flip out at the idea of taking this truck and turning it into an of highway and/or extreme duty truck, but like I said, the team really ought to stretch out what we have as far as they can since the alternative is taking out nearly a year to make a second big rig. If we do get another big truck, it could use the T-Series cab. There's some cool super heavy duty options, such as a twinsteer or a crazy massive oil field rig. But that stuff doesn't really have much a place in game other than being just another big instrument in our destruction toolboxes. Of course I'm not expecting the team to turn this into a Kenworth 963 or something, but some off road HD bits would go a long way.

There's a lot of fun to be had with super builds/racing configs as well. My personal favorite is a T65 inspired by The Great American Truck Race. Then there's the possibility of a drag racing config or tractor pulling config. If anyone wants to make the JATO Bus obsolete, there are a few jet engine semi trucks out there. Finally, a super pete... Now, one of these would make the D-Series crawler look like a factory option and we don't even have axle swaps for the D-Series or Hopper yet, so it's safe to say this isn't on the radar for official BeamNG content (sadly).

I imagine we will see more trailers when the T-Series gets some attention. There's a similarly large quantity of options here as well. Doubles/Triples/Road trains, low boy flatbed, multiple types of car haulers, dump bed/scrap metal trailer, mobile car crusher, pup trailers, etc...

Spoiler: Gallery

Tri-Axle with integrated sleeper

Custom Truck. Note the stretched frame and rear wheel arches:

Camper Style Thing (There's a lot of variety in these and they can get really crazy):

Multiple options for a crane:

Utility Uplift:

Wrecker:

Great American Truck Race and smaller tow truck:

Drag Racing Trucks:


Tractor Pull:

Jet Engine:

Super Pete:

Road train: Note, well, everything... The intakes, the extra fuel tanks, the roof mounted AC unit, and so on

Trailer Combinations:

Pup Trailer:

Mobile Car Crusher:

 

I agree. The T-series and pretty much semis in general are over looked all the time in the beamng community. I saw a post about a new semi in game and the first post right after it said that we already have the T-series and that's enough. What we really have too much of is people who want japanease cars and sedans, and even minivans. It seems to me that everyone overlooks what we really need. We really need more trucks in the game in general. Pickups, heavy duty trucks, and semis are really needed. We've already had 2 D-series remasters and now the Soliad/Legran remaster next. The T-series has alsmost gotten no updates since its debut. We really need more for our beloved semi! Now who agrees with me?

 

I personally wouldn't like too much different customization and upfit options for the Gavril T-Series. Considering that BeamNG is not exactly related only to trucking, i think the number of options for a truck not everybody ever uses would be unbalanced if compared to a D-Series options for example, considering that there isn't even an vanilla map that includes a complete set of trucking buildings and features, features like loading docks or loading zones on the same map. This is also present on the Wentward bus, you don't see much options on it, because not everybody drives it.

I also consider the number of features on the T-Series quite decentish. It is a american conventional semi-truck after all, they all look the same, apart from a paint job, aluminum or steel wheels, or a different exhaust pipe. And i speak for a truck enthusiast myself.

As for the trailers, i think we already got a nice set of trailers. The Dry Van, the Flatbed and the Tanker gets the job done for a complement for the T-Series, adding more of them will also end up on the same problem i mentioned before. I do consider the loading options very poor though. The only trailers that have decent loading options for me is the tanker. We only got Tasti-Cola for the dry van, not even a set of generic boxes are included on it. The flatbed's pipe load are glitched, as they start to bend to the left after some driving, and the system for the wooden planks isn't the same as the smaller trailers and the H or D Sereis, which is a shame.

As for skins, i feel the lack of company skins for both T-Series, Dry Van and even the tanker. I would love to see fictional companies for the T-Series Box upfit, or even a Tailobite tanker trailer.
I wouldn't mind some classic stripes for the T-Series though, or even some more customized paintjobs following the trend of the "patriot" skin.

Some small customization options wouldn't be bad either, as long as it doens't follow the fate i said on the first paragrapher, like an Peterbilt 359/379 headlights, or even hood ornaments. Women mudflaps maybe? lol. But i hope you get my point.

 

The T-Series hasn't been completely ignored, as far as I can recall it's seen more attention than most cars in game of her age. I think part of the "problem" is that no matter what BeamNG does, there will always be better trucking games out there. The more "normal" road cars are somewhat unique to BeamNG as most racing games focus on high performance cars, so there's plenty target for cars like the LeGran. But there's plenty of games for the trucking community. Want a full economy, fair road truck and trailer selection, huge map with road laws and reasonable traffic, and a bit of customization? ETS/ATS is well established. Want big heavy duty off road trucks with ground deformation? Spintires/Mudrunner/Snowrunner has you covered, as long as you can put up with the typical AAA publisher controversies. But BeamNG currently doesn't have any advantages over them, so there isn't all that much for that part of the community. With a team as small as BeamNG's things just have to be prioritized, and at the end of the day the T-Series is neither popular enough nor in desperate enough need for help to bump it to the front of the line for remastering.

I really think adding some of those super builds I mentioned would help a lot here. SCS has no reason to put those sorts of trucks in game and Pavel's physics engine doesn't handle high speeds well. Yes there are games that focus on racing trucks, but all the ones I know of only have stuff like FIA Euro trucks, nothing like the ones I mentioned. Adding something like a Great American Truck Race config would carve out a unique niche for trucking in BeamNG compared to other videogames

I don't see any reason to artificially limit the amount of content for the truck. It's not like adding options to the truck will remove utility from the other vehicles in game or shift the game balance of anything. People will always complain when the vehicle they want updated doesn't get updated. I can't think of a single vehicle or major addition that wasn't met with "who cares, no one uses it, there's no reason to use it, when will the car that I like get updated". Yes the popularity of vehicles should be considered from a development standpoint, but ignoring low popularity vehicles will only snowball that effect and only focusing on what the community universally wants will lead to stagnated development as there will never be universal consensus. Adding uplifts/trailers/customization would add massively to use cases, not take away from anything else. Not only this, but the simpler options here have very good cost/benefit ratios. As I mentioned, we don't even have the basics covered right now. The fact is the truck does not meet the baseline that the team has set for their recent content and there is no reason to ignore it while they are looking at the rest of the roster.

The Wentward is limited in content because it's a bus, not because of it's relatively low popularity (I wouldn't call it unpopular, it comes up in community contributor videos relatively often). Aside from an articulated config, front mounted bike rack, alternative fuel power plants, and maybe a facelift like the New Flyer D40LF got, there really isn't anything to add to it.

 

About the Wentward, that follows exactly what i said before. The T-Series was considered a placeholder for semi trucks since its very start. There is not much to be added to the truck either, it really follows the concept of a generic semi truck from the late 70's. Speaking like an outsider, the difference between a Mack Superliner, a Chevrolet Bison, and a GMC General are almost none.The T-Series was basically made for that purpose, just like the Wentward.


About the statement you made about "limiting configs", it also falls in the same catergory i keep saying about an excessive amount of accesories for a "placeholder". Adding much different configs into the same vehicle will give it a weird feeling. Take for example the firetruck upfit found on the repository. And adding overspecific options as well, like a mobile crane, or a military rocket launcher, would give the same "flooded" sensation when choosing from the presets of the vehicle. You get lost by looking at the D-Series spawning options, and i'm talking about a vehicle that almost everyone on BeamNG ever heard about.

I do consider a remaster of the T-Series, but still maintaining its generic purpose and not flooding it with configurations nobody ever uses, just like the H-Series remaster. I do even consider it quite a priority due to its function as a added vehicle (Bluebuck exists due to its lowrider configs, the Bus exists due to its minigame, so on). And the developers should follow whatever they feel its better to be added/reworked on BeamNG drive, regardless of what the players feel up to.

 

Yes, we definitely need a jet truck in game!

 

I don't get this at all. How is it just "a placeholder" and how would that make sense from a development standpoint? How are real life counterparts not versatile or different from each other? The eSBR was a placeholder because the team could quickly make it while a sensible ground up electric platform (FCV) was in the works. The T-Series is a full on proper vehicle in her class. It's not like Fink thought to himself "let me spend the next year building a truck so that 10 years from now I can build another one that ticks the exact same boxes to replace it". The T-Series is a perfectly representative vehicle, just really short on content. Just like the pre-remaster D-Series was. And I already discussed the large pool of potential content. I didn't have to dive deep there either, that's all relatively well known stuff that is common on counterpart trucks (other than the superbuild options obviously). Of course the GMC General and Chevy Bison are similar looking, they are literally the same truck. But I'm not talking about adding a second truck, I'm talking about making the most of what we have, so it doesn't matter if a Mack F-Series and an Autocar AP19 are too similar to the average Joe off the street for this conversation. What matters is how versatile these platforms are, and they are very versatile. As I already dedicated an entire post to.

Giving a semi-truck things that you expect her to have isn't "overspecific". On the contrary, having a semi-truck that is missing even the basics is "unfinished", which is a polishing issue that must be resolved before the game's full release. It's not a good idea to call the game full release when there are cars that haven't been updated since early alpha and aren't even near the par set by vehicles released even back in 0.15. The only reason to limit configs is the awful UI selector we have, but considering the T-Series has 16 configs to the D-Series' 72, we are a long way from having to worry about that (which hopefully will be a non-issue when we get a new UI so it's a moot point).

Take that mobile crane for example. If we want to have a mobile crane in game, what are our options? The team could spend a year making a dedicated mobile crane (not happening) or a month to plop one onto the T-Series, which is a perfect platform already. It's not a stretch to see something like that at all, it's very common IRL. Where is the utility gain by keeping the T-Series as a base platform with minimal content when there is so much that she ought to have? That's equivalent to keeping the D-Series to the single cab short bed that it was years ago out of fear that any additions are excessive and unecessary.

What do you mean here? We haven't even seen the content additions for the H-Series yet, only the major quality issues resolved. It's been confirmed that she will be seeing a fair bit of content when they get around to it.

The Bluebuck does not exist only for a single one of her 34 configs. If the only purpose was for a lowrider then they could have added hydraulics to the Moonhawk/GM and saved 9 months worth of work and money. 9 months of pay for a team of 10 artists/engineers is a massive sum of money, well over half a million in salary alone assuming Fischer pays his team the average starting salary in the field.

 

speaking of jet trucks

 

I think he may of meant the D-series instead of the H-series, but that's just my speculation. If he did mean H-series then I have no clue what he means. It could of just been a typo.

 

I meant placeholder because almost any vehicle im BeamNG is meant to be a placeholder. Otherwise you would see similar vehicles, but different brands more often. There is a reason why the most generic vehicles in the game is meant by just their class on anywhere normal players shouldn't been supposed to see.

You can see somewhat specific options on each vehicle, like the stock car Bluebuck and its lowrider preset. But these are options that really add a sense to the game, as they are specific places on one or more map to them to run in, like the racetracks or the "ghettos" of the West Coast Map, respectively.

Like i keep saying, we don't got a single loading dock for a Dry Van, or even some decals over the gas stations to park a tanker truck next to with. Why would you want superspecific options on a vehicle that doens't even have a place to call its "own" with its all configs in its current state?



I do wonder what things you want to in a semi-truck to start with. We got a fifth wheel, that is literally anything you can get to have a semi-truck. Apart from that, we got a box upfit, a flatbed, a car hauler, a rollback tow truck, and a cement mixer. What else do you want on it? You don't see different types of ambulances, or different police departaments on the Grand Marshall or Bluebuck. Things in BeamNG are built to be as generic as possible, otherwise any vehicle that can be both owned from a normal person and a company would have both owner/company counterparts. The only vehicles that need overspecific options are the ones that really need them to make sense. Such as the Belasco Police Departament vehicles, as Belasco is somewhat meant to be the main city of the game, like how i said before. It wouldn't make sense to model a wrecker tow truck upfit if it there isn't mentioned anywhere in the game's lore that they have or need one. Not mentioning that there ins't even places on the map to run these vehicles with.




With the D-Series you mentioned. There is so lack of things that can appear on a van that i actually thought that was a remaster itself. You can think on a similar manner with the T-Series. It needs a remaster, but there isn't much to be added to it anymore that would look like the game is literally a truck simulator.



You can consider all the arguments i'm talking about with other games. Let's suppose this random game i made up launched as a small indie game. It sudddently turned into a complete success and now its developers are gonna add a new gamemode to it. Turns out that with all it's simple features in the beggining, with all the new features made the game look unbalanced. Because the game feels with normal features on one side, and completely complex stuff on another.

I can use Grand Theft Auto: Online for this explanation. The story mode has been left to rot since its launch, while its online mode is full of systems and ways of earning money. The game advanced so much in the online that you can't even start a character from scratch because of the complexity of just about anything and the number of players killing a guy with a moped on an orbital cannon made out of gold.

I can use this superb situation in BeamNG. Of course, i am not saying that a vehicle would cause the game to become a full mess like GTAO. I am saying that adding specific options to a truck unless there is a good reason for it would make the game feel a lot more full on one side than another. Just like the D-Series configuration options compared to a Pigeon's.

I DO approve the add of more functions to both T-Series and trailers though, like the sliding tandem axles with a key instead of needing to change them manually on the tuning section. The bus has a good level of functions and i think it is nice to them to be added into the T-Series as well. It can be done, but adding things that only truck freaks are able to comprehend would give that feel i mentioned on the last two paragraphers.

 

There are some things I strongly agree with here, and some that I strongly disagree with.

Encouraging strides have recently been made in that direction as maps have been refreshed:



The problem is that there's still usually only one designated loading/unloading spot on each map, though there are several places on each map that could feasibly accept or export cargo. For example, taking cargo from the docks to Shuffleboard on WCUSA is a possible scenario, even if one end doesn't have a formalized loading area. The trick is going to be encouraging the dev team to place at least two or three suitable areas with functional loading docks on new maps going forward.

First things first: Let's illustrate a point. Here's a selection of American conventional semi-trucks that were available new between the approximate 15-year period of 1971-1985:



There's plenty of variety in truck design of the period - arguably more so than cars from the same era. There was experimentation in the shape and positioning of fenders. There were several different philosophies on how a hood should open. There were single-piece and split windshields. Air filters were being mounted inside and outside of the hood. There were regulatory changes and advances in material technology that changed the way lighting was handled - albeit slower than cars. And there was the big split between Dayton and Budd style wheel/axle setups, and then steel vs aluminum Budd wheels.

I'll second the generic box load for the Dry Van trailer as an especially good idea. I'd like to see the dev team go ahead with increasing the number of load options for the existing trailers and continue to work to improve the existing ones (That pipe glitch probably deserves a mention in the 0.21 discussion thread), but restricting the number of trailers isn't the way to go.

Right now we don't have any options for moving bulk material with the T-series outside of the T75 dump truck. Once that's been properly optimized to better handle carrying loose props and materials (they have a nasty tendency to stick to the inside of the tailgate at the moment), I'd like to see the dev team take the progress made there and apply it to something bigger like a 40-foot end dump or even a belly dump trailer. Those would open up new game possibilities.

And I can guarantee that almost every player would use a trailer-mounted mobile car crusher at some point (like the kind found in junkyards all over the north american continent) if one became available in the base game.

Customization on the T-series is probably going to become more important as time goes on - especially if delivery missions are going to be an important part of career mode. I've got my list of things I'd like to see added to the T-series, mostly small pieces like custom visors, bumpers, and extra lighting. I'd also like to see the truck retconned into two distinct generations (1975-1985, and 1985-1995), with the older one receiving a de-facelift to round lights and Dayton axles.

I'm in full agreement on the need for more skins, both on the trailers and the truck itself (and we also need proper colour maps for the dry van so we can give it colourable skins). Proper classic stripes are something that I feel hasn't been properly handled in the base game yet, though the 'Special' skin is a good start. I've made my attempt with my own trucking graphics pack.

Funnily enough, Gabester himself was working to implement custom mudflaps a long time ago - I'm not sure if anything ever came of that.

Not having corresponding map locations shouldn't - and doesn't - stop vehicle development. We have french cars, including french police cars, which are not often found outside of France, and no french maps. We have at least one NASCAR-level stock car without the large oval track suitable for that type of racing.

The one thing that immediately comes to mind is some extra options for what we do have - a refrigeration unit and its corresponding tank for the cargo box, and a stake bed option for the flatbed.

Even disregarding the sheer number of auto repair garages already in official maps, there's plenty of reason to add a wrecker. After all, BeamNG is the game that takes car crashes more seriously than any other. Why not have tow trucks to clean up the mess?

The main reason we don't have one already has far less to do with any idea of it not being part of a balanced game and more to do with the current technical limitations of JBeam structures. Ropes and 'Ropables' are currently one of the subjects the dev team is researching.

I'm going to summarize and condense what I believe to be your core point here before I address it: Based on what I could piece together from the last four or so paragraphs, I think your primary concern is that by adding more parts, options, and accessories (including both trailers and map locations) to the T-series, or even to heavy trucks in general, the game will become unbalanced, and its character will shift in a direction that will be detrimental to the player base.

I think it's very good that you have this concern, especially since it seems that you are passionate about trucks and driving them in BeamNG. It takes a considerate person to realize that they may need to hold back and avoid monopolizing a shared asset (in this case, the future of the game) so that others with differing opinions can continue to enjoy it.

But I'm going to have to disagree with the idea that adding more heavy truck content is going to unbalance the game over the long-term. If anything, it might do a little to create better balance. How many driving simulators are out there that allow high-performance automotive, challenging off-road, and realistic truck driving? We've got plenty of content that serves the first two subjects (which are admittedly more popular, at least in video games), but that doesn't mean the dev team is going to neglect or underserve a section of the playerbase.

After all, their stated intention as far back as the first 2013 tech demo was to create a game that let you drive, customize, and use a wide variety of vehicles in ways that no other game would allow. And delivery missions have been a part of that driving and customizing vision from day one.

A personal note - before the release of the Hopper crawler, the D-series refresh, and most of the map revamps, it briefly looked (to me at least) like BeamNG was veering squarely into high-performance sports car territory, and that the game was going to slowly turn into an asphalt racing simulator while offroad, demolition derby, and truck content was going to be permanently moved to the back burner.

That wasn't the case. The team was just taking development the only way it could be taken - one step at a time. And they do seem to have gotten more careful about the order in which they add new content - now there's much less disparity between on-road and off-road content being added to the game. Things are getting more balanced, not less. And in time, I'm confident that the increase of balance will bring things around to adding more heavy truck content.

 

You're asking why I want to see vehicle content in our game about vehicles? Well that has a rather obvious answer.

And why are you so hung up on loading docks and the like?.. The adjustable size ramp is a lot easier to use anyway. A wrecker has a helluva lot more functionality and "it's own places" than some configs in game already. We have a JATO bus, what's the place for that? We have a French police car but no French map. We have taxis and ambulances but no people, police configs but no laws... So why shouldn't we have a Wrecker when we do have cars to tow?

I wouldn't consider anything I suggested to be "overly specific" or lacking it's own place. The visual content I mentioned has the same utility as any other visual content in game. More factory content like sleepers and frame options is the same story. The D-Series has like 25 frames now, so why can't the T-Series be bumped up from 3 to 5 or so? If you're concern is how limited the T-Series is in use then shouldn't you want these additions as it would add versatility and therefore solve your problem with it? The uplifts I mentioned are at minimum just as useful as the cement mixer we already have. The superbuilds all have their place too. Tractor pull rig? The team mentioned they want the game to cover many racing disciplines and that's an easy one to implement. Drag racing trucks? We already have plenty of places to do that. Great American Truck Race? We already have multiple race tracks in game and plenty of other vintage race cars. Jet truck? How is that different from the JATO bus? Super Pete? The CRD monster truck was one of the most popular mods before they moved onto it's own website, so it's safe to say stuff like this would do all right with the community. Trailer combinations? Well this one would admittedly be low utility on our small maps but it would be a new challenge and there's some sandbox fun to be had there. Lowboy flatbed trailer? Arguably more useful than the flatbed we have now. Car haulers? It's a car game, I don't need to explain that one. Dump bed? That's just a trailer version of the uplift we already have.

This entire conversation is in response to my list of stuff I want to see, which I included a gallery of comparable trucks spec'd with my suggestions. There are a lot of options other than a fifth wheel.

What are you even talking about here? There are only a couple cars that have "lore" (most of those are just easter eggs, such as driver names and the Civetta statue) and IIRC only 3 configs are used in A Rocky Start, which is the only cannon we have atm. If we don't count easter eggs as lore then we have like 3 configs out of 511 currently in game. We do not need a lore justification for every config.

Also, how exactly isn't there a place to use a tow truck in our car game? We already have 3 roll back tow trucks, including one on the T-Series. We have multiple vehicles large enough that a wrecker would be needed instead of a roll back. We don't need a towing company in game lore to justify it any more than we need the name of an in-universe doctor with full staff and insurance company and medical equipment manufacturers to use either of the ambulances we have.

This is just false. Like, completely false. By this logic the game is purely a rock crawling sim because we got the Hopper and D-Series crawler back to back. This game is intended by the devs to cover a wide variety of vehicle stuffs. The way to get variety is by adding content, not removing it. Giving use to the T-Series would make this ETS in the same way that giving us the LeGran turned it into Grandmother driving sim 2021. It won't. But we do need to get closer to that point with as many vehicle disciplines as possible, trucks included, if we want a well rounded do-anything game, which was the intention for it.

The D-Series feels complete enough to belong in the game. It feels well rounded, close to factory complete, and has enough content that people want to use it in many situations. The Pigeon feels like it was ported straight out of 2013 BeamNG and the only time anyone uses it is to laugh at how useless it is. We should not want stuff like that in the full release of this game.

 

How much free time do you guys have