General Car Discussion

Discussion in 'Automotive' started by HadACoolName, Mar 6, 2015.

  1. default0.0player

    default0.0player
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    The thing is, autonomous cars are actually far more dangerous than cars driving by humans.
    The safety of autonomous car is one of the most overrated in human history. This is because most of the driving scenarios done by AIs are controlled environment such as gridmap a testing ground, or on highways, where driving is safer than in city roads. Humans will make even less mistakes in those conditions. Another factor of the overrate is advertisement, unlike the old days when ads are not more than description plus where to buy, modern day ads often manipulate living style or even moral value. Therefore Big Tech/Big Media can fool people into believing that autonomous car is safer.

    From a technical standpoint, although computer is better than human in many things such as calculating, computer is much worse than human in terms of driving.
    Contrary to poplar beliefs, AI can be distracted as well. The more complex the road, the more the cars, the higher the CPU load, when the CPU load reaches 100%, the computer is invariably distracted as its calculation can no longer be done real-time. Spawn a car in GridMap, good 200+FPS. Spawn 3 cars in East Coast USA, somewhat 100 FPS. Spawn 20 cars in Italy, then you got 10 FPS AND the physics cannot real-time. That's why AI does well enough in testing grounds can cause accidents on public roads.
    Computer is also less reliable than human brain, you do know how many times of application crash or hang, system BSOD, etc. If you use computer every day, it's almost impossible to be free of crash or BSOD for at least a year, and most of drivers are free of car accident for many years.
    Computer is a kind of machines that replaces abacus, thus computer is very good at calculating such as calculus and stuff. We are evolved from our ancestors, hunter-gatherers. The use of brain power in driving a vehicle, is similar to hunting. Situational awareness, body coordination and judgement are all involved in both driving and hunting.
    In terms of situational awareness, self-driving cars have many radars and HDR cameras, however, the AI often identifies the wrong object. For example, the AI might "see" a TV remote but the real object filmed in the camera is actually a pineapple. The AI may fail to identify vehicles in shadows or under intense sunlight, and the accident rate increases significantly in these situations.
    In terms of body coordination, it's very difficult if not impossible to make a working robot that's mechanically similar to human body, the robot will crash on the ground after a few steps.
    In terms of judgement. It's quite often for the AI to misjudge things and cause accidents. Take an example of BeamNG, I crashed numerous time racing in BeamNG, both on street circuits and on race tracks, that caused by improper ESC "Driving & Safety Electronics". Most of the crashes are vehicle in understeer, the ESC brakes the outer front instead of inner rear wheel, making the vehicle even more understeery, reducing cornering G by a whopping 30%, causing the crash. The Sunburst and the late D-Series, which used the old ESC logic, never make such mistakes. The more complex the computer system, the more likely the misjudgement. A more serious problem is that since BeamNG is a simulation game, what happened in Beam, can also happen IRL. It's entirely possible that many car accident are actually caused by ESC, and are mis-concluded as driver error since we don't have race-spec telemetry that monitors brake temperature, yaw rate, g-forces in real time synchronized with the dashcam.
    The marginalization of driving is backwards. autonomous cars are like horses with wheels. People moved from horse riding to vehicle driving is that you cannot dictate the horses' movement, if a horse is having a road rage, it may kick you off its back, causing human injury.

    However the future is uncertain, it's entirely possible the AI might excel in all situational awareness, body coordination and judgement in the future. We don't need humans by the time the AI does better than humans in every possible ways. We might use computers as our brains and mechanics as our bodies, the definition between humans and robots no longer exist by then. But until then, drive vehicles without automation.
     
    #18641 default0.0player, Sep 5, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2021
    • Agree Agree x 3
  2. drewr1122

    drewr1122
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    Nothing can replace the superiority of the human brain.
     
  3. HadACoolName

    HadACoolName
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    My latest dashcam vid
     
  4. GearHead1

    GearHead1
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    This statement seems over political. People blaim everything on "Big Oil", "Big Tech", "Big Media", etc. and get all defensive. Autonomy isn't perfect yet, but it ia close to being able to replace humans more or less.
     
  5. drewr1122

    drewr1122
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    Then what's the point of your God-given brain?
     
  6. NGAP NSO Shotgun Chuck

    NGAP NSO Shotgun Chuck
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    And this is a good thing?

    As for his statement being PoLiTiCaL, that's one of the main reasons a forum shouldn't have a "no politics" rule. If certain topics come up, and you're not allowed to discuss politics (or only from an approved point of view), you end up having to deliberately ignore certain elephants in the room, and argue as if they don't exist.
     
  7. default0.0player

    default0.0player
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    My "From a technical standpoint" got completely ignored.
     
  8. Slugfest

    Slugfest
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    You are correct in both parts there, including the technical standpoint ;)
     
  9. default0.0player

    default0.0player
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    So you did switched off ESC but it switched back on out of nowhere without your permission? This is very bad, it may make the vehicle drives off a cliff and killing you in the process.
     
  10. NGAP NSO Shotgun Chuck

    NGAP NSO Shotgun Chuck
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    I agree, that's pretty scuffed.
     
  11. combatwombat96

    combatwombat96
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    Has anyone tried offroading or fjording shallow-ish rivers in a E100 Corolla before? These things are seriously underestimated!

    Though dont try the fjording if you want brakes or headlights, i should've learnt from my previous (and barely successful) water crossing attempts
     
  12. Harkin Labs Gaming

    Harkin Labs Gaming
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    Also extend any breather tubes so water doesn't contaminate your transmission fluid or oil.
     
  13. drewr1122

    drewr1122
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    Also just get a car made for it as well
     
  14. combatwombat96

    combatwombat96
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    Or just dont enter water thats higher than the wheel wells ;)
     
  15. fivedollarlamp

    fivedollarlamp
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  16. Harkin Labs Gaming

    Harkin Labs Gaming
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    Why? Did something happen?
     
  17. HadACoolName

    HadACoolName
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    Probably just referring to how Mitsubishi is a shell of a company that just spews out whatever garbage Nissan tosses their way.
     
  18. Harkin Labs Gaming

    Harkin Labs Gaming
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    Yeah, but its been that way for years. The only good new car they make is the Mirage.
     
  19. drewr1122

    drewr1122
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    RIP Mitsubishi, Dacia, Nissan, Renault, and Lada
    --- Post updated ---
    Stellantis is coming their way
     
  20. P_enta

    P_enta
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