Ibishu Pessima

In terms of European models, the Pessima would probably be marketed as a niche executive car - like the Camry or Accord Coupe in Europe. This would mean high equipment levels as standard (for example, my 2000 catalog tells me that the base Polish market Camry already came with an automatic and climate control), but no major concessions towards the European buyer.

The affordable car with the diesel option would be the Beamverse version of the Avensis.

 

In the late 1990s, mid-size cars that exceeded the 1.7-meter width limit for standard cars were commonly sold in Japan.
Most manufacturers sold both narrow-body models exclusive for the Japanese market and wide-body models compliant with North American standards.
Toyota, for example, sold the Japan-only V40 Camry (1.695 mm wide) and the worldwide XV20 (1.785 mm wide) under the name Camry Gracia.
It would be interesting to change the body for each destination like the 6th generation Accord, but since the current Pessima lineup seems to cover both the North American and European markets (it has side markers, but items for Europe like the kph gauge and touring car config are also available), it seems like it would be no problem to make a JDM config like the Camry without any reworking.
However, the "cheapness" seen in the 1.8 DX may not suit the JDM or EUDM. Like the Camry, the Japanese and European versions should be pushed to be more upscale than the North American versions.

 

Ah, that makes sense. I wasn't aware that the Camry was such a "high-class" vehicle in Europe, but I guess that's my American-centric mindset talking - I tend to see the Camry and its kin as average sedans.

So, an EUDM '96 Pessima would be pretty much a FWD Japanese E-class or 5-Series? Maybe not quite that posh, but hopefully, you get what I mean.

I'm aware of that - I was trying to say that if it were to be sold in its current market position in Japan, it'd have to be practically a whole different car (like the V40). I missed that little detail, and just assumed that people would know what I was trying to say - my bad.

I don't know if having three different-but-similar bodies for each major market would be a good thing - if silhouette-altering body styles like a wagon or a coupe were glossed over for every remaster except the LeGran, I highly doubt three similar sedan bodies are on the cards.

And yeah, maybe the '96 Pessima could get JDM versions. If it does, I don't mind - it's not impossible, and more customization more good, and all that - but I don't know if it'll happen officially. The '88 definitely could get JDM versions in its remaster, whenever that happens.

 

My apologies. I guess I shouldn't have replied without thinking too much.
Is the Camry still an inexpensive family car in North America? If you compare the top-of-the-line models in Japan and the US, there is not much difference in equipment other than displacement. Moreover, even if you calculate the exchange rate at the time, the prices are roughly the same. In Japan, the Windham-Lexus ES was above the Camry, so the XV20 didn't have much of a "luxury car" image at the time, and was more frugal. So I don't think it would be strange if the wide Pessima was sold as is in its current market position.

 

No, no, you're fine - it's alright if people come along and politely correct me on things when I start talking out of my ass (which happens fairly often). Oftentimes, I tend to learn a lot from those people and incidents. For instance, I learned that the massive size taxes for vehicles wider than 1.7 m ended in 1989 - which would've been before the '96 Pessima was even in development in-universe.

So, yeah, JDM '96 Pessima is a valid option - and considering how much work it would take to make a whole new Japanese-market late-'90s Ibishu, I reckon that if there is a "JDM-oriented" update any time in the future, the '96 Pessima could get a RHD interior and any other Japanese-market things. It'd certainly be a lot easier to do than making a whole new car.

The Camry can be quite a cheap car - the LE has a starting MSRP of about $26,000, which isn't terribly expensive. The XLE and XSE V6s both start at about $36,000 - which is quite pricey, but still well below the average new car price of about $50,000.

 

The average price of a new car in the US is $50000! I had no idea the Camry was such a cheap car. In Japan, the price is said to be around 2~3 million yen, so the latest Camry's price of around 4 million yen is well above the average in Japan.
Therefore, the current Camry seems to be a common family car in the U.S. and a high-end car in Japan, but when the VM501 Pessima was sold in 1997, the average new car purchase price in the U.S. was only $22400. In Japan, the average price was about 2 million yen even in 1996, so it seems that the position of the Camry in both countries has changed more recently.

I am also very happy to have new knowledge that the average price of a new car in the US is $50,000. I learn a lot from this forum because what I know changes when I live in different parts of the country. Thank you and I will keep you posted.
The tax reform helped boost sales of big luxury cars in the early 90's, but in the late 90's, export-spec wide family cars were also sold to improve safety and to reduce development costs.
The Japanese mid-size market at this time was complicated by the markedly different policies of the various companies, but it was certainly a time when large family cars were beginning to become popular.

Yeah, just make it RHD, tweak the headlights a bit, and make the configs Japanese, and you're good to go, no different than what covet does.

 

Keep in mind that the word “car” is used loosely here, and the high average price is offset by all the big trucks and SUVs that are ever so popular here in America, many of which have very wide price ranges. For example, the price of a 2023 Ford explorer range from $36,000 to around $56,000 depending on trim level and equipment. Price range for the F150 is even larger, from $31,000 all the way up to $77,000. When vehicles with these types of prices are so common and widespread in the US, it’s no surprise that cars like the Camry and other Pessima comparable models are considered “cheap”.

It’s also worth knowing that most people who can afford these prices in general opt for the higher end models, those people with lesser financial means will typically go for used older model cars, because maintenance is cheaper and older cars tend to be less complicated, and therefore easier to repair. This trend is what’s causing sales of brand new smaller cars to decline in the states, which is why Ford and GM have both discontinued their compact car lineups in the US market. They are concentrating on the SUVs and trucks that really make them money, and leaving compact cars to the foreign brands.

 

I see. Now I understand where the mid-size sedan stands in North America. Thank you very much.
In Japan, old cars are VERY high taxes (and every year! plus another tax every two years), and since you have to buy a new car even if you can't afford it financially, it could be that cheaper new cars are more popular (for example, if you buy a used 1996 Camry 2.5 V6 for 500,000 yen = $3800 in Japan, the total tax will exceed the purchase price of the car after 6 years of driving).

 

Yeah, I watched a youtube video on rules for cars in Japan not to long ago, from what I understand their tax structure is made to benefit sales of newer, more efficient cars with both smaller engine displacement and smaller overall size. The video also mentioned the (by US standards) crazy strict inspection and maintenance requirements (apparently loud mufflers and aftermarket window tint are illegal, the noise level is measured, you can't drive without a bumper on the vehicle, and you can't even have a hole or tear in the seats unless it's covered with tape or a seat cover), and that outside of Japan's tuning and car enthusiast communities, most "regular" people don't work on their own cars, therefore making it cheaper in the long run to get a new car every few years instead of spending on taking it to a mechanic for all the required maintenance after a certain age.

I don't know if you're a car owner, but if so I'm sure you would know a lot more about this than I do. Either way I actually find the differences in American and Japanese vehicle regulations interesting. That makes me think, if the regulations are theoretically the same in the beam universe, then there'd probably be very few JDM Ibishus left in Japan, and a lot more export spec Ibishus (and exported JDM cars), since that's what happen in real life as well.

I know that by this point, my post is probably starting to sound more like speculation, but maybe since there are currently no Ibishu vehicles with production extending to the present day, that could be why they are holding off on adding a Japanese official map. Going by Japan's real regulations, it would not be realistic for there to be so many older cars still on the road anywhere in japan, and since the SBR and Sunburst are the only "new" Japanese cars currently in the game, and neither has JDM models currently, they might not add a Japanese map until they make more, newer JDM cars. Maybe those could include a more modern Pessima model, or an Ibishu or Hirochi compact crossover comparable to the Honda CR-V, and sharing parts with a newer Pessima, Covet or Sunburst generation.

 

The Japanese government says "mottainai" in certain situations, but hates old cars. Seems very contradictory, don't you think?
Right now, cars older than 20 years running in Japan are limited to sedans such as the Toyota Mark II that old people take good care of, or commercial vehicles such as cabs, vans, trucks, and buses. We can't help it if the only two new Japanese cars are Hirochi's.
Furthermore, the popularity of small sedans and specialty coupes in modern Japan is very small, so the two Hirochi's are actually not really suitable for creating a Japanese feel.
Sadly, it may be tough to add a Japan map right now, since many of the cars we see in Japan are "JDMs" as the term implies, sold only in Japan and the Asian sub-region, such as the Honda N-BOX, Nissan Serena, and Toyota JPN Taxi.
Ibishu covers Toyota, Honda, and Nissan, so very much the right brand to make them...
Nevertheless, I think there is a possibility and a need for JDM to be set up for Pessima, just as JDM was set up for Covet.

 

Yes, this is what I'm trying to get at. The Pessima feels incomplete without JDM configs. I also think the Pessima has a lot of potential for a platform mate, whether it be based off either generation currently in the game, or a newer generation made recently, or still produced today

 

Yes, in my area (suburbs around Tokyo), the most commonly seen cars are "light super tall wagons", "light trucks and light vans", "high roof minivans", "small SUVs", and "small trucks and vans". . Of these, BeamNG currently classifies the Hopper as a "small SUV", and I think that only the Pigeon, which is barely classified as a "light truck", can be confirmed.

 

Unlike the latest 5-door crossover SUVs we see in Japan, the Hopper is a 2-door, older, full-fledged 4x4, and unlike the popular Suzuki Jimny in Japan, it's not a kei car, so there probably won't be many of them on the road.
Then there's the Pigeon, but it looks like we'll have to wait for something like the cabover Pigeon Mod, not a hood truck.
I also think it would be good to add small cars like the Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris, since they can make crossovers, small minivans, and even taller cabs like the JPN Taxi all on the same platform.
However, since this is a Pessima thread, let's think about what we can do with Pessima. Surely a minivan like the Ibishu Kashira, Lexus RX or ES (=Harrier/Windom) would be nice since they are based on the Camry.
Of course, adding a wagon body to the Pessima itself could increase the number of times we see it in Japan in the current BeamNG world, since Japan was in a wagon boom at the time, and wagons sold better than sedans.

 

I certainly agree with your opinion. I think Pessima needs a wagon too. I also think there needs to be a Pigeon thread on the forums.

 

As I've been told, Pigeon certainly doesn't have a thread yet. Well, there is a lot of work to be done to make that thing a realistic light truck, such as wheelbase, cargo bed awl, 4WD system, etc.
The wagon would feel like it should just do what LeGran did, although an AWD system would be nice to have.

 

Yep, every pessima needs a wagon and a coupe and a 4wd.

 

Pessima coupe, I feel like it will compete with the 200BX in the market. Will the Pessima coupe compete with the 200BX and the 200BX end up being discontinued, just like Honda had the Accord coupe and the Prelude competing within their company and the Prelude was forced to end its sales?
The 200BX is a RWD coupe and will probably be more popular in the market than the Pessima coupe. If so, how about selling only the 200BX as a mid-size coupe, like Nissan did when the only mid-size coupe was the 240SX, and offering a hardtop sedan for Japan instead of a coupe for the Pessima?

 

Regarding Pessima based minivan idea, although the Kashira is a good mod, I think an official one based off the Previa/ Estima in terms of visual design would be welcome. It has a distictly different design than the Kashira ("dustbuster" style as its called in America) and this design would be the first official one of its kind in the game.

Basically, this Previa (dustbuster shape):


versus this Sienna (conventional shape):


The Previa was sold globally so it would have JDM (Estima) and international trims. The Sienna on the other hand was American designed, specifically for the north American market. I believe a Previa inspired van on the Pessima platform would be a greater value to the game, not only becaue of its body shape, but because it would actually be sold globally and not just in the US and its neighbors.

 

only problem is, that gen previa shares more mechanically with the liteace/hiace vans than something like a camry; it has a front engine-rear drive layout, with a solid rear axle (the engine's on its side under the floor)

but otherwise, I think if they're going to make a japanese minivan, they would be better off making something distinctly japanese like this. a conventional FF minivan could be just as likely badged as a bruckell.

 

Since the Estima was launched in 1990, it might be rather nice to use the 1988 Pessima platform and synthesise the Estima with the FWD Nissan Axxess, unlike the Estima.
But relatively short minivans like the Honda Odyssey and Mitsubishi Chariot are also attractive because they have a uniquely Japanese feel...