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Mid-engined Corvette

Discussion in 'Automotive' started by Snikle, Jan 8, 2018.

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Would making the C8 mid-engined be bad?

  1. Yes-- An absolute Travesty!

    10 vote(s)
    20.8%
  2. Yes, but I don't really care.

    7 vote(s)
    14.6%
  3. No, but I don't really care.

    19 vote(s)
    39.6%
  4. No! I think is just what they need!

    12 vote(s)
    25.0%
  1. Pacivica

    Pacivica
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    Explain the discontinuations then. Also, remember I said "2010", which means it's a specific year. Also, I meant as economics in brands within GM.
     
  2. MrAnnoyingDude

    MrAnnoyingDude
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    Europe might not be the best market to sell in; the motorization and average car price (read: possible markup) is not as high as in the US, Australia and New Zealand, and the economy is not as growing as in China.
     
  3. Pacivica

    Pacivica
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    Do you EVEN know where the brands were originated? HUMMER was from HUMVEE, US. Saturn, US. Pontiac, US. Oldsmobile, US.
    Also, Holden's dead as well, so you might as well be wrong for Australia.
     
  4. MrAnnoyingDude

    MrAnnoyingDude
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    And GM decided Cadillac and GMC were good enough for luxury SUVs, Saturn and Pontiac doubled with Chevy and Oldsmobile was too close to Chevy and Buick.
     
  5. Pacivica

    Pacivica
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    Do you have understanding of anything I say? I'd like to see if anything you say is anyways 100% correct.
     
  6. MrAnnoyingDude

    MrAnnoyingDude
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    Yes, I do know English.
     
  7. Pacivica

    Pacivica
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    ...as not my language, know-it-all.
     
  8. Shotgun Chuck

    Shotgun Chuck
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    I heard about a story a long time ago, that was set in a dystopian future. Don't remember what it was called or many of the details, but what I do remember was that everyone got plastic surgery to make their face look like one of a number of "approved" "perfect" faces that had been decided on. There was one woman who clung stubbornly to her own face, refusing to get surgery no matter how many times the catalogs with the numbered models' faces were thrust at her. Finally, after some time, she succumbed to the pressure and got the surgery. After waking up and being given a mirror with which to examine "her" new face, she exclaimed, "Oh, so pretty! And just like everyone else's!"

    That's what this mid-engined Corvette reminds me of. It might be a fine car, but it will lose something in its attempt to become an American Audi R8.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. llӇƳЄƝƛԼƠƦƊll

    llӇƳЄƝƛԼƠƦƊll
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    Guys we're talking about the idea of a mid-engine 'Vette, so maybe take this argument to pms instead of clogging the thread with it. :rolleyes:
     
  10. _Archer_

    _Archer_
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    1. The Corvette is THE icon of American sports cars. It's like the Liberty Statue, the McDonald's sign or the Golden Gate bridge and if there's a thing you never never never do, it is changing an icon until it becomes unrecognizable. Just to make my point in the car world: take Porsche as an example. They've built many cool (and some truly horrible) cars over the years, but whatever they did, the 911 always stayed the 911. And it is the most successful sports car ever.
    2. Owning and driving a sports car or even a supercar generally is about two things: fun and status. Seldom about lap times. You drive a sports car because it makes you feel good driving it, looking at it and/or owning it and people envying you. Not because it can do the Nurburgring in 7:30 minutes. The majority of people owning a supercar would never go to a race track, and if they did would have neither the skill nor the guts to drive it fast enough to make the lap time matter. So give all the marketing idiots the boot and concentrate on what matters: emotions.
    3. Corvettes always had a certain beauty to them. But it's not so easy to build a mid-engined supercar the really looks beautiful. They may have pulled off "pretty" with the Dino 246 and Ferrari 308 GTS Magnum drove and with small sports cars like the Fiat X 1/9, the Toyota MR2 or the Porsche Cayman. However, mid-engined supercars like Lamborghinis (Countach, Aventador, Diablo), Ferraris (F40, Testarossa), Audi R8, or Porsches Carrera GT may look striking and powerful but they are not what I'd call beautiful or even pretty. And if the pictures of this supposed new C8 are any indication it won't be too pretty either.
    4. Like the Porsche 911 or an Aston Martin DB9 the Corvette always was a car that had a practical side to it, and that you could live with very well in every-day life. It has a sizable boot and is comfortable even on long trips and has a descent range. Visibility is not too bad either. A mid-engined supercar generally has few to none of those comforts.
    5. If sales abroad is the issue, GM may not have understood or ignored why the Corvette never was very popular outside the US: it's the same reasons American cars generally are not very popular outside the US: image, quality and size. From the beginning Corvettes used to be huge compared to European sports cars, and when comparing them to a Porsche 911, and Aston Martin Vantage or a Ferrari 488 (which are closest in power and price range) they still are huge. So they don't fit well on narrow European roads. In addition early Corvettes up to the C4 weren't exactly sophisticated or sporty. They were powerful and very good in a straight line, on narrow winding roads ... not so much. They also have a reputation for not being very well made, and they used to be awful gas guzzlers. Much of that has changed since the C5 of course, but it's hard to get people to recognize it. For Europeans the Corvette generally still is a tad too big, too thirsty, too loud, too cheaply made, too flashy, for some even too embarassing. The fact that Corvettes were THE car of choice for the pimps in the red light districts everywhere didn't help much either. So even while car fans in Europe like and even love the Corvette for what it is and what it represents, most would never buy one for the afore mentioned reasons.
    In order to boost sales in Europe you'd have to tackle the image of the Corvette, and just switching the position of engine and driver won't don't it.

    IMHO the only way to go would be to build a new even more affordable Corvette C8 based on the known and trusted formula without investing too much money into development (the C7 already is terrific). AND build a mid-engined supercar to rival Ferrari and Lamborghini.
     
  11. nosraenyr kcirtap kcin

    nosraenyr kcirtap kcin
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    The Corvette isn't really the car of choice for pimps, that's more so the Lincoln Mark iii, iv, v, Cadillac Eldorado, and Coupe Deville. The Corvette is more of a White Trash Sports Car Mostly the C3 and C4.
     
  12. ManfredE3

    ManfredE3
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    I don't really agree with nearly any of that TBH...

    1) The Corvette styling hasn't really changed for awhile. The C7 is much more aggressive than the C4, but it still hasn't changed much compared to the Mustang or Camaro for example. And saying "don't make an icon unrecognizable" in the business world just seems like bad business, just look at the Mercades G-Wagon. Underneath that thing has never changed, and it isn't exactly a good vehicle compared to its competition. Automotive companies should not be applauded for sticking with a similar design for 4 decades out of fear. As pointed out by @Instant Winrar, it's an appropriate time for Chevy to make the first major change to the Corvette since 1983. That is only 4 years off from the G-wagon, which regularly receives flak for this issue. Yes many Porsches look similar, but I don't think having a bunch of similar looking designs is a positive point.

    Also, McDonalds changes a lot. They have had major remodels and menu changes multiple times in my lifetime alone. Iconic cars also change a lot. Large structures don't change much aside from rusting and painting due to their innate difficulty to make changes to.

    2) "For fun and status" seems like the AMG slogan. If i decide to drop $130k on a 750hp car, I want to know that it can go fast on a track. Unless I buy an AMG. Then I want to know I can go through many sets of tires in one session on a track. Correct, the general customer base won't be trying to set lap records, but that doesn't mean they want a performance car without performance. Those customers should probably look towards boats overpriced luxury vehicles or something like that.

    3) I am not sure what to say here without starting a circular debate about aesthetics

    4) Rear visibility probably will be poor. I doubt being practical has ever been high on the list of typical performance car designers. Things like engine placement will always be a trade off. We will just have to wait and see if this trade off was worth it.

    5) I don't really know the Euro market much, but I have never heard Euro business cited as a reason for this. I heard the 2019 C7 ZR1 isn't even legal in Euro markets. The change will help the Vette compete with her current business competition due to improved handling, and finally give Chevy something to put up against the Ford GT. Remember, putting the engine in the middle of a Corvette is not a new idea. The Zora is just the first one to make it to market.
     
  13. Shotgun Chuck

    Shotgun Chuck
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    As far as making "the first major change to the Corvette since 1983", I have to say that I consider the C3 Corvette, though the 1968-73 models more than the later ones, to be one of the most beautiful cars ever built. It's right up there with the Zonda and Miura on the "want it, need it, sell organs to get it" scale for me. They're also not nearly as bad in the corners as you might think; they had utterly wonderful handling balance that the C4 then proceeded to completely destroy in a quest for ultimate skidpad numbers.
     
  14. MrAnnoyingDude

    MrAnnoyingDude
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    Well, I only had a contact with the C3 in Forza Horizon 2, but it's still one of my favourite cars in the game.
     
  15. _Archer_

    _Archer_
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    Interesting points there:

    1. You're right of course: the styling has not changed much since the C4, but that was not my point. Even technology is not the point. Change is good and necessary, but building a mid-engined Corvette is about changing the CORE of the car. In contrast to the Mercedes G-Wagon the technology behind the Corvette has changed significantly over the years to make it more modern, more economical, more luxurious and better in any way.
    Even though the new Mustang and especially the Camaro look very different to previous models they are still front-engined rear wheel drive cars with back seats and a big boot. Basically and in essence what a pony car used to be and should be.

    An icon is not only about what it looks like but what it represtents. Switching the Corvette from front engined to mid-engined would make it an entirely new car that has nothing in common with its predecessors.

    2. Even a basic C7 is VERY fast around a track too. Engine placement does not determine speed. We can see that with the 911 (rear engine) Nissan GT-R (front engine) and Lamborghini (mid engine). They all set lap records on the Nürburgring. And lets be realistic: for some meager 130k you won't get anything that is remotely THE fastest anyway. In addition - as with any other car - most Vettes sold are not the top models. So the top model is basically for image and marketing. But the tens or hundreds of thousand "normal" cars sold for 70k or 80k are what brings in the money.

    3. fair enough

    4. I agree. That's the whole point I was trying to make. The designers don't have practicality in mind, and the result won't be a Corvette anymore. In contrast to Lamborghinis or a Ferraris the Vette always was much more blue collar and as such many people owning Vettes use them on an every-day basis, driving them to work etc, right? You simply cannot do that well with a mid-engined car because they are impractical and even annoying in every day life. There is a reason why you see (at least in Europe) many Astons and 911s driving around and few Ferraris or Lamborghinis. If you take that practicality away you will lose those customers especially if the price rises which I would expect.

    5. In case Chevy just focusses on the American market it is doomed anyway if you ask me. With buying the Daewoo car branch in the early 2000s and selling them as Chevys in Europe they started to cater to European markets and also started selling Camaros more or less successfully in Europe for the first time, so I guess the long term focus has to be the rest of the world if Chevy wants to survive.
    Ford as the only American car maker has always been very successful internationally because they build completely different cars for different markets. The Ford GT cannot be the benchmark for the new Vette. The Ford GT is a prestige product to boost the image. They don't sell that many of them, and they don't make much money with them. The Corvette in turn always was a mass product in comparison. And in my estimate the Vette always was the best value. You simply cannot buy a sports car with that kind of performance for that kind of money anywhere. So the Vette is unique in that regard.
    The argument that mid-engined cars are better handling is a myth. Handling is determined by weight distribution and the suspension of the car. There are DIFFERENCES of course. A mid-engined car in the hands of a very skilled driver may hold the grip a bit longer with the engine pressing on the rear axle, but the downside is that mid engined cars are far less forgiving during load alterations and are harder to keep under control. If you lose grip on a mid-engined car you're gone faster. So you can pick your poison. Of course you can always make the car behave electronically but where's the fun in that?
    And just because the idea with the Zora was there before it doesn't necessarily have to be a good idea.
    --- Post updated ---
    In the US that certainly may be true, however I was writing about the image the Corvette has in Europe. A Vette with red seats in Germany for example used to SCREAM pimp. :) Of course this has changed too. Pimps also drive different cars, but the IMAGE the Covette projects is still there in people's heads.
    There are very few Lincolns, Eldorados or deVilles in Europe and you normally get to see them on classic car shows (well restored and good as new mostly).
     
  16. Brown_Diplomat

    Brown_Diplomat
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    No, the Corvette was not a inbred sports car, it was the definition of American sports car, the White cunt sports car was the 3rd Gen Camaro.

    OT: The idea of a mid engined Corvette is just unsettling, it's like cheeseburger, but it's just fried plastic colored yellow.
     
  17. Pacivica

    Pacivica
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    It doesn't help that it's like GM wants to be Ferrari, which the mid-engine cars Ferrari has works that way. Also, I hate the C8 face. I'd go for a DB11 over it.
     
  18. Blood-PawWerewolf

    Blood-PawWerewolf
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    GM wants to show the world that a mid engine sports car can be made and be affordable at the same time.
     
  19. The F12 of Maranello

    The F12 of Maranello
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    Toyota done it long ago.
     
  20. Blood-PawWerewolf

    Blood-PawWerewolf
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    Yet the corvette is the icon of the American muscle car. A mid engine corvette is a corvette lovers fantasy.