Next Car Game

Discussion in 'Other Games' started by Ukuku92, Aug 31, 2013.

  1. DrowsySam

    DrowsySam
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    Can't count how many times I've heard that, it's ridiculous.

    Is it just the new terrible excuse for using a bad/outdated 'physics' engine?

    When I first saw NCG, I thought it looked cool, then I saw the developers claiming that it's "Soft body physics", I instantly lost all respect and interest.


    (imported from here)

    Seems that they changed the word physics to 'deformation' since I last checked, still fully uncool lying about it.
     
  2. simon48

    simon48
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    I thought it was really bad when they called it "soft body physics" too. I'm looking at it from a very analytical, unbiased and informed view. You could completely remove the car damage and I would still say it had really good optimization, it has nothing to do with how close (or not in this case) the physics are to BeamNG. I have not been brainwashed! :p
     
  3. gabester

    gabester
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    BeamNG Team

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    Rigid bodies flying everywhere smoothly is nice... but HL2 did that in 2004. I'm just not impressed or convinced that it's a "beast" of an engine with amazing optimization. You could have a stack of 100 barrels tumbling around in HL2 in 2004 at a smooth framerate, too. Apply that tech to computers that are 10 times faster and you have NCG.
     
  4. Craftworth

    Craftworth
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    I was wonder, why they didn't named their damage system just "Dynamic damage system". It seems, it's just PR.
    They needed to named it different, more interesting.

    Just like EA, they named NFS like sim racing))
     
  5. Aboroath

    Aboroath
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    Anyone used to wear out the parents cigarette lighter trying to make futile model car wreck diorama's???...could never get that friggin'
    hood to cool and bend just right. Car models in NCG remind me of those failed blobs of plastic sitting on the back porch.

    Not bashing their efforts , in fact, what Bugabear is doing is healthy for the whole SBP world.:cool:
     
  6. zyrgen

    zyrgen
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    NCG feels very much like original Flatout, driving just isn't very fun when you can put pedal down and keep it there without much care.
    I like beamng because you have to be careful, just like in real life.
     
  7. DevKryton

    DevKryton
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    Wow, the video gets much more hype than expected. But I don't really like were this is going, it's not impossible that Bugbear will strike my video and take it down because the video reveals more or less the really ugly "side" of NCG.
     
  8. Aboroath

    Aboroath
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    Nice video comparison Dev! Reminds me back in the days of Destruction Derby when I dreamed of something like BeamNG and thinking
    it would never happen. Life is good.
     
  9. Smeowkey

    Smeowkey
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    YouTube comments are meaningless. Never take them seriously.
     
  10. Hati

    Hati
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    Who's ready for some video game science? I found some fun things. Right so let me put this in sterile language so you can make your own jokes about this.

    I did some playing around in the technology sneak peak where I disabled the AI right away thus leaving them in that perfectly organized oval of cars. Well I figured I’d bombard them with debris and watch the torrent of concrete carry the vehicles away. I went to go copy one of the blue pillars and fire them at the ground in such a way that the concrete gibs would roll over the ground and crash into the cars. This concrete tidal wave would swiftly sweep the vehicles away in a glorious cascade of debris. Oddly enough no such luck, but for reasons you wouldn't expect. Here's a before and after.

    Perfectly Organized.jpg Perfectly Organized 2.jpg

    Hmm… looks like the cars are in perfect formation still. Maybe the concrete gibs aren’t heavy objects. Lets take a closer look and remove the debris

    Perfectly Organized 3.jpg << Well that’s interesting and the cars look a little odd. Shall we move somewhat closer?

    ss (2014-02-01 at 01.08.10).jpg ss (2014-02-01 at 01.07.50).jpg

    Oh, but how? There’s no force applied to the cars; they didn’t move an inch! But I am charitable so maybe its a distance thing. Maybe its some kind of physics LOD? I dunno. To be sure I’ll do this with one car; up close.

    OnceCarupclose.jpg OnceCarupclose2.jpg

    Glorious. Ok; so a conclusion I have to come to is that force has nothing to do with deformation, its relative deceleration and probably has mass factored in. Now personally I'd have handled things with the equation F=Ma and you calculated the deformation based on another equation that factors your calculated force in. The problem for Next Car Game is that the current physics behavior could only make sense if Deformation=Ma, that is it IS simply equivalent to force. I'm not even sure this kind of thing would qualify in the slightest as soft body. This is simply moving geometry around. If force was involved properly we would see something like this happen:



    The object hitting the car deforms the car and simultaneously carries the car away-- in a proportional manner. If the car is able to move it deforms less than it would if you anchored it to the ground. Now it’s worse for NCG than I stated above. Concrete gibs are no heavier than the tyres when you drive through them. In NCG you can crush cars with absolutely no force whatsoever: it’s not important. All that seems to matter is how much the car decelerates an object. I got the exact same behaviour out of some much heavier gibs that I couldn't drive through-- barrels I had fired into the ground to break them first.

    Things are a bit worse than I thought they were because Deformation is dependent on only one variable: velocity. Specifically how much you decelerate the object you hit. No mass is factored into the damage calculation by the looks of it though. Whatever mass you hit makes no odds. Hence there's no way to claim this deals with any kind of force. Damage is as canned as the handling!
     

    Attached Files:

    • GIF-BEOMNGE.gif
    #290 Hati, Feb 1, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  11. slntbob_

    slntbob_
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    mbwr_pc_2014_02_01_13_55_02_907.jpg
    Such dynamic soft body damage. Very optimized. Much FPS. Wow
    (Mercedes Benz World Racing from 2002)
     
  12. Nadeox1

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  13. slntbob_

    slntbob_
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    That's World Racing 2 ;)
    I'm pretty sure that World Racing 1's damage system is similiar to GTA's and NCG's.
    "Softbody" was meant ironically ;)
     
  14. TheAdmiester

    TheAdmiester
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    Half correct, but not fully. It's a mixture of what you said and GTA IV-style (what I'll call "interpolation damage") damage. The pre modeled parts are for anything that can detach and come loose, with each having its rotation constraints defined in the car's model file, but the car mesh itself deforms depending on where it's hit like GTA and NCG.
     
  15. TheNodeMaster

    TheNodeMaster
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    There both good in there ways

    BeamNG:play it when i feel like denting something really hard

    NCG:play it when i want to have a laugh
     
  16. LandYacht76

    LandYacht76
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    I lol hard at the idiots that think NCG's damage is new & "ZOMFG SO REVOLUTIONARY". Viper Racing from 1998 uses that system of damage, even Super Runabout, a game for the Dreamcast uses that system of damage(dynamic mesh deformation).
     
  17. Gouranga

    Gouranga
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    From my point of view it is quite obvious what's going on. Gameplay. They want players to enjoy massive environment destruction without constantly slowing down, loosing control, having debris stuck under their car...
    I've learned something about rigid body physics simulation when I studied Physx SDK. I suppose that whatever physics middleware they use, the principle of rigid body simulation would be very similar. Colliding objects don't apply any force to each other. They exchange momentum through impulses with respect to their masses and velocities. That translates to change in velocity and angular velocity of these objects. You just define basic parameters like an energy conservation coefficient that says how much momentum dissipates in the impact etc. NCG could get the amount of dissipated energy to calculate deformation. You can also define how one kind of objects interacts with another kind, like making it one way only so that a car affects debris but not vice versa.
     
  18. kubus765

    kubus765
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    very realistic car damage ^^
    ce6hv7G.png
    and it still drives
     
  19. LSDMT420

    LSDMT420
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    Another Youtuber who think's NCG is a soft-body physics game, I wish people would do just a little bit of research before spreading misinformation..



    I tried correcting him in the comments and he just got defensive :rolleyes:
     
    #299 LSDMT420, Feb 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2015
  20. thevidmaster

    thevidmaster
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    no, next car game fired cotton candy
     
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