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Quest for more realistic clutch (a tip/guide)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by fufsgfen, Jan 4, 2019.

  1. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
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    I am pretty stupid, but so far I have been running clutch as linear and clutch has felt really not clutch like at all.

    Today finally I did tamper with it and came up with this:
    upload_2019-1-4_3-12-45.png

    Real clutch has a bite point, you press clutch pedal and movement at beginning does nothing, hence deadzone at beginning.

    Also when you press real clutch, you end up to point which after it does pretty much nothing too.

    Different cars have bit different kind of clutch, but one thing common is that after bite point there is quite short range where most of action happens, then it lessens as you press clutch further.

    To get different feels of clutch, linearity can be adjusted and to get different throw length of clutch, deadzones can be adjusted.

    I just did set this up, haven't tested much, but already it feels a million times better than stupid linear clutch setup I have been using.

    So everyone else has figured this out like years ago already, right? :D

    Tell me what you have come up with or what settings you think works for which vehicle, I think this improves immersion factor like 98.4% or something.

    There is another preset, which I like bit better:
    upload_2019-1-4_3-36-59.png
     
    #1 fufsgfen, Jan 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
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  2. SebastianJDM

    SebastianJDM
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    Interesting, thanks for sharing
     
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  3. CN877

    CN877
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    Considering I haven't changed by clutch settings I guess I am using a linear clutch. I will adjust my settings to be similar to yours :) Thanks for sharing, as I have minimal driving experience, especially with manual vehicles.
     
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  4. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
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    I'm bit dissapointed that I never though of this before, but making pedal movement to create similar response as real pedal really seems to work.

    I did play with throttle linearity too, as throttle pedal linkage IRL is creating less linear response, can't just remember exactly how it was with different cars I had (Haven't driven in 7 years and less than 500km in 9 years, after I got health issues), so going bit randomly with that.

    Great bit with clutch adjustment is that finally there is real like stalling characteristics and by adjusting one can create sharper or softer feel for clutch. Must try with other games too, it's like upgrading clutch pedal or something :)
     
    #4 fufsgfen, Jan 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
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  5. default0.0player

    default0.0player
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    Same applies to brake pedal. IRL if you press brake very lightly. The brake pads will not engage but brake light will turn on.
     
    #5 default0.0player, Jan 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
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  6. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
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    Yeah, with brake thing gets really complex as it relies so much on pressure which allows modulation without lot of travel, it would require some hardware mods to get decent braking and not on/off feel only I'm afraid. I have heard people putting squash balls to their pedals though.

    These response curves are certainly well worth experimenting with, these add surprisingly lot to gaming experience when one attempts to replicate real pedal behavior.
     
  7. JlnPrssnr

    JlnPrssnr
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    Great clutch settings. Tried starting the car in 3rd gear and while it works, it feels almost as stubborn as in real life. The simracing community praises loadcell pedals as brake. Those have minimal travel and mostly measure the force you apply - up to ~60kg. Positive side effect is that humans can remember a lot better how much force they applied than how far they pressed a pedal, greatly improving consistency.
     
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  8. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
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    Thanks! Maybe there could be way to get realistic clutch setting checkbox into game that would apply something like this so more people could enjoy it, but maybe it might cause some issues with some hardware/users, but I feel that this really makes big improvement for a clutch.


    I did see some page that did sell load cell brake for T3PA pedals which I have, but price was bit much for me.

    I have seen load cells for digital scales sold on chinese web site, not sure how would I get signal from such to act as brake signal though, also I think that I would need to build some racing cockpit and something would be needed hold pedals down to make it work.

    Oh and in BeamNG, default brake force for many cars is in 70% range, however for me 40% is plenty enough for most cars, some need even less for lock up wheels at high speed, so changing that helps a lot with braking.

    I'm not sure why they have set brakes so strong, maybe they use some different pedals or something?

    Well, easy enough to change, but always when one don't know what is behind some design choices it brings up little Sherlock that wants to know more :D
     
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  9. JZStudios

    JZStudios
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    As someone with a load cell brake pedal and a daily manual...
    Load cells are better than not since they do have resistance, but they don't have any travel which is still a little weird. It could also be my car in particular, but my brakes aren't as hard to push as the load cell.

    I haven't fiddled with a non-linear clutch and I suppose it's worth a shot, but at this point in time I just basically set off at 3,000 rpm in sim games since doing a standard start always stalls the car out. Once in gear and moving it's also always a full depression before shifting, which is pretty easy since the clutch pedal isn't particularly heavy. If a non-linear clutch can get a car off the line at a standard 1000-1500 rpm takeoff I'll be surprised.
     
  10. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
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    I find that learning bite point with non linear is somewhat easier, so instead constantly lifting clutch, you hold it for a second when starting off, bit like IRL, you let clutch slip for a little while when starting off in sensible slow way.
     
  11. SebastianJDM

    SebastianJDM
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    hydraulic pedals feel much better. load cell brakes usually have short travel, but hydraulic brakes are really tuneable, when it comes to resistance, angle, travel, progression, etc. you could even use a hydraulic setup without any kind of polyeurethane bushings if you wanted to, to mimic having softer power-assisted brakes, but you'd probably be better off using some type of memory foam instead. but just the hydraulic fluid provides a nice damping and smoothing effect on your inputs and pedal feel, and it doesn't have to be overly stiff.
     
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  12. aljowen

    aljowen
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    Presumably you could do some DIY with a really cheap hydraulic bike disk brake. Using a "SRAM Level" for example. Remove the pedals spring, shove the brake lever system behind it, leave the plastic pad spacer in the calliper. That way you might get hydraulic "feel", but for around £35.

    So the pedal will function as normal, via the potentiometer, but you get hydraulic resistance.
     
  13. Michaelflat

    Michaelflat
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    yeah it always surprises me the clutch, especially on high power turbo diesels, (180hp is that high power :p ) the clutch is so not linear, but then i think it is by design, think about it, you are letting the clutch up, and as doing so the turbo is spooling, once you are underway a bit, turbo is up and running and so the clutch can couple more and more. Obviously when you are too quick, it can lurch the car though :p as the engine just bogs down with no turbo to help it :p
     
  14. Capkirk

    Capkirk
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    It seems like Beam makes the assumption that clutches are perfectly linear, so 99% clutch transmits 1% of max torque, 50% clutch transmits 50% max torque, and so on. Obviously in real life this isn't true, but the dead zones and curve makes a decent approximation. I feel like the rest dead zone should be smaller though, the clutch only feels fully locked so early because you aren't usually putting anywhere near it's max torque into it, it probably would still slip if you were at WOT.
    I suppose if you really wanted authentic brake feel, you could take the brake master cylinder and a caliper off of a junk car, bolt it to your desk, and stick a load cell in the caliper. It would probably cost the same amount as a good set if sim pedals, and theoretically be a 100% accurate representation.
     
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  15. SebastianJDM

    SebastianJDM
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    most clutches in this game seem to bite around 90% and finish engaging around 60% or so, which is kind off odd to me since most cars i've driven seem to grab closer to the beginning of it's travel rather than the end
     
  16. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
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    Way I set rest deadzone is to rest my paw on clutch pedal, it gets pressed a little and there I set bite point by adjusting rest deadzone, while having curve already set. That is then easy to find even pedal has no feel in it and clutch is easy to use even active range of movement is small.

    Similar way IRL my cars had empty movement first, except that one which had worn out clutch, even slightest pressure on clutch pedal made it to slip.

    What I think is that for each pedals and users that rest dead zone might be different for best possible experience.

    I did set this in other games and found clutch easier to use and less slipping, giving more real like experience.


    I'm not sure if real is always better though, for example for brake, we lack so much details in sounds, g-forces etc. that more movement range is something I prefer, with T3PA pedals there came this conical rubber thing, but I can't use it, my braking becomes totally random with it and I guess pedals would need to be attached to floor or something with that.

    So definitely adjust especially with different pedals and share your settings for others to perhaps get ideas which direction to adjust to get better experience.
     
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