On Hold [Somewhat outdated] MAN TGS Euro 6

Discussion in 'Land' started by MRcrash, Oct 27, 2018.

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  1. Xupaun

    Xupaun
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    For the Scanias, we have most of the cab options to all series (except the L Series), and also, most of the I6 engines and the 620 PS V8 (all Euro V until now). The closest we get to a Kenworth is the Paccar MX engines on the Daf XF, since Kenworth and Peterbuilt never tried to stablish themselves in our market (the only attempts were by International, Chevrolet and Ford, all failed). Nowadays, our regulations tend to "help" cab over trucks, so the chances of them trying now are very slim, specially because the group already has DAF well stablished here and the other american manufacturers, ae owned by european groups that aready have european trucks here, just like Mack (owned by Volvo, that sells the FH here), Western Star and Freightliner (owned by the Daimler group, that sells the Actros here).
    Considering how soft duty trucks are in the US, I understand why a US designed truck would fail miserably here, unless if heavily redesigned (even the wheels bolt patterns are different).
     
  2. Slugfest

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    I see, so y'all don't have the real Kenworths. In America, Kenworths are known for their hauling ability, as the low end of the highway lineup (T680) covers most use cases, and when it doesn't quite cut it, the middle segment (T800) should do it. If you really need something hauled, and I mean REALLY, the high end (W900L and W990) can certainly take care of it with comfort included, but Europeans wouldn't be able to use these due to the length.

    To be honest I've never understood why regulations encourage cab-over trucks for even the heaviest duty applications in Europe, as in America no one outside of lawn crews use cab-over trucks, but I guess if you don't need the power of a long nose and need to conserve as much space as possible, a cab over truck would be the way to go.
     
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  3. Xupaun

    Xupaun
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    Well, here the roads are really tight and with trucks going up to 30 meters of length (from the truck's front bumper to the trailer's rear bumper) things become even tighter. Also, Lets compare a Volvo VNL to a FH. The VNL is longer and heavier than the FH, so, since truck length counts, we would need to sacrifice trailer length (less cargo volume), and being heavier, we lose payload capacity. Before I forget it, for trucks with hoods, the front axle is limited to 5,000 kg in the GCWR, while cab over trucks have 6,000 kg on the same axle.

    Other thing to mention, is that 99% of new trucks are owned by transport companies, not by the driver, so driver comfort is not a bigger priority than payload capacity and/or cargo volume capacity.

    This is a truck with 36 tons of GCWR (80,000 lbs)
    12373378_554212478070647_8857148412118462237_n.jpg

    This is a more common configuration, a 3 axle truck pulling a 3 axle trailer (similar to most US trucks), but here, this configuration can have a GCWR of up to 48.5 tons (106,000 lbs). Also our trailers use ladder frames (like in europe), so they are A LOT sturdier than US standard trailers.
    Scania_S450.jpg
     
  4. RenAzuma66

    RenAzuma66
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    You say "the power of a long nose" though trucks here have up to 770hp from the factory now. There's just no reason to have anything else when a proven design works here, just like the same story in USA and the conventionals. I'm European but I love both
     
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  5. Matthew2992

    Matthew2992
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    The “low roof” R Series are taller than the low roof G Series, and it’s that slight difference in hight that means we can’t have the V8’s.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Scania’s; they look sharp and the V8 option is nice. But the amount of issues we’ve had with these is unreal.

    The truck I’m in right now snapped the original drive shaft, it’s on its 3rd pressure regulator, the fridge handle broke and now it beeps at me all the time, the aircon is garbage for the Australian heat, it regularly does injectors (which upsets the computer and it loses control of the automatic clutch), the air-seat is garbage, I’ve done 2 thermostats in the past 12 months, the retarder regularly stops working, it doesn’t like going into 7th gear, it’s blown the bottom radiator hose twice this year, it’s on its 3rd radiator, and it’s also done a clutch fork. It’s only got 484,000k’s on it hahaha. What tops it all off is that Scania doesn’t seem to keep parts in stock in Australia, at least for the G Series trucks.

    Photos for fun:
     

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  6. Xupaun

    Xupaun
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    I would add that 600+hp and 3000+Nm of torque is something quite common in Europe. Nowadays Volvo has two variants with over 600 hp, being the FH16 650 and the 750 (in the past it had the options of 600, 610, 620, 660 and 700 hp), Scania has its V8 ranging from 620, 660, 730 and 770 hp, Man has a 640 hp (in the past it had the 680) engine and Mercedes has a 625 hp engine. I understand that US trucks look tough and mean and may look like they are the most badass trucks around when speaking about power, but the europeans, specially the Swedish are crazy. They offer 770 hp trucks in 4x2 configuration (I'm pretty sure they can't even climb a hill with no trailer and TC off, at least without burning some rubber lol).
    --- Post updated ---
    Well around here, Scania and Volvo are the kings of the road. They sell a lot and the drivers are really passionate about their trucks. Volvos are almost bullet proof, their engine brakes are REALLY strong and they are, usually the most comfortable, with is soft suspension and big cabs. Although, if something mechanical breaks, good luck, because parts are expensive af (at least it is pretty hard to break a Volvo). Scanias are pretty reliable too (not as much as Volvos, but still), their engine brakes are garbage ( This is a funny representation, with the first horse representing a Volvo and the second a Scania lol), their comfort level is pretty ok, I'd say just behind Volvo, but not in the same level. The main issue (at least before the Next gen trucks) was their "easily" snapping axle shafts. But trucks around here are pretty tough overall, specially from brands that are here for a long time like Mercedes-Benz, Scania, Volvo, Volkswagen/MAN and Iveco.
     
  7. PresidentJukeBox

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    Jesus Christ what's up with that Scania?? Even with all its sensors and computers, it shouldn't have that much many problems with only 484ks. If its the G series, check the Philippines. Its one of the most used Scania type and has a large market for it.

    But if its Down Under rigs. I gotta go with the ole Outback Spec 509.


     
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  8. RenAzuma66

    RenAzuma66
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    The 640 MAN has the same torque as the previous 680 so it's not really a downgrade either. Also Scania V8 ranges from now 530, 590, 660 and 770 at least for the newest Euro 6D "New Gen V8". I also just dont get why anyone has to specifically hate or call out one brand over another rather than just disliking it, the shit some people speak is impressive lol
    Also the idea behind those very high power 4x2/6x2's is that they can climb hills without needing as much throttle however i doubt they realistically do anything other than be status symbols
    OT:
    upload_2022-2-28_21-26-24.png
     
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  9. SKB

    SKB
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    thats a nice backlit gauge
     
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  10. Slugfest

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    You are right about the power of Scania's, with 770 hp and 3700 Nm (2728.98 lbf·ft) being far more than the max 500ish hp and 1850ish lbf-ft (2508.26 Nm) that most brands offer (top end) in the US. Despite that, however, the EU and UK max out at 44,000 kg (97,000 lb) whereas some American states allow up to 171,000 lb (78,000 kg). (The lowest max is only 80,000 lb.) That high end figure is likely where my "lOnG hOoD pOwEr" idiocy came from, but thanks for calling me on it as I learned something new today :) Upon further research, the long hood appears to be solely for ease of maintenance and crash protection (especially at American speeds), whereas the COE is good for shorter length and better visibility for maneuvering.

    Fun fact: the original COEs were better in crash tests as 80's traditional trucks (when COEs really took off) had small cabs and weak frames by comparison, allowing the engine and front axle to collapse into the cab. Funny, huh?
     
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  11. Dummy1102

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    screenshot_2022-03-01_20-11-15.png screenshot_2022-03-01_20-11-26.png i pbr it myself:p
     
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  12. RenAzuma66

    RenAzuma66
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    The world sure does go around lol
    Also, in Scandinavian countries (especially Sweden and Finland), there are bigger trucks along with double trailers allowed (not only in those countries, but the biggest are from there). In Sweden, its common to see 24m rigid truck + trailer combos as well as vehicle weighs up to 60 and 74 tons (132k to 163k lbs), as well as legal testing of vehicles with weighs up to 94 tons (207k lbs). Finland also has HCT's (High capacity transport) with trucks that can be over 30 meters long (over 98 feet long, our standards are total vehicle length of 49.2 feet), and as an example, the Giant which is currently the heaviest regular running truck in Europe with a length of 33 meters and a GVWR of 104 tons (229k lbs). Also a few European countries, most notably Germany and Spain are allowing the tests of double trailers and double full size trailers, some of which pulled by ultra low height semi trucks for efficiency. Also there are of course exceptions to the limit in case of heavy transports, one example that I can give is this TGX from Baumann which is, legally, the heaviest truck in terms of total train weight of over 1,000 tons (roughly 2,205,000 lbs). To the nerds out there (I hope at least a few of you exist), it's propelled by the 640hp D38 engine with 3000nm multiplied by 1.58 by the ZF torque converter can get some serious weight moving. It was further modified by Toni Maurer and fitted with a driven front axle (normally not possible on TGX apart from HydroDrive) suspended by hydraulic springs. The transfer case is also made by Toni Maurer (normally this is a factory MAN unit on trucks with driven front axles).

    I don't mean to turn this into a manliness competition of "who has the higher GVWR", but it's pretty cool to know how things work across the pond for either sides (I don't forget Australia, thats a whole another beast as well) and also a chance to talk about trucks stuff lol
     
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  13. Slugfest

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    Watch someone from Australia reply with something to the effect of "Down under, we have to fuse together two V8s so we can get some V or W16's, depending on the spatial requirements, making at least 2380 hp and 8000 lbf-ft of torque, so we can pull about 6400 tons at a time. We install driveshafts in the first 20 of 200 trailers to get this done, powering the first 60 axles of the vehicle. We have to build the springs into the road as well, just in case." ;)
     
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  14. RenAzuma66

    RenAzuma66
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    Just doing a bit of a comparison, the R is only very slightly taller than the G and it definitely seems to be shorter than the height of the trailers you pictured there. Of course I don't know if the loading bays are used with a shorter trailer or something, but to me it looks like the R would fit
    upload_2022-3-2_17-23-28.png upload_2022-3-2_17-23-44.png
    You can compare the height with the front blind spot mirror as well
     
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  15. Matthew2992

    Matthew2992
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    Technically the R Series “would fit”, but the thick rubber loading spouts already collide with the face of the A-trailer when driving in. So I think the concern was that constant hitting would take the paint off or put a dent in the roof. And the G Series is slightly cheaper, so there’s that
     
    #3195 Matthew2992, Mar 3, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2022
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  16. WalidES7

    WalidES7
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    Front air suspension would probably solve that but yeah R series with front air suspension is more expensive
     
  17. Matthew2992

    Matthew2992
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    We’ve got front air suspension, but we load it to axle weights and it’s hard to estimate 6.5 tonnes on the steer axle when the bags are down
     
  18. TheWater1234

    TheWater1234
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    Sorry to ask: Is there any solution to the lack of textures on the cargobox uppack? I was looking at old photos and everything looked normal there.
     
  19. RenAzuma66

    RenAzuma66
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  20. TheWater1234

    TheWater1234
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    Thank you for the information. I keep my fingers crossed that the problem will be resolved as soon as possible
     
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