Where are we going?

Well there is that interesting comment Blijo made recently on "motivation" and a lack of "good modders", which is goign to stir up controversy (I'm referring to one of his progress-updates on one of his WIP mods, the Fintray Roadster).

 

The old game was poop, the new reflections are good.

 

I'm a little hesitant. I'm leaning a bit more on the CryEngine graphics but both a good enough for me.

 

I would like to bring up, that if the Piccolina is released this month, there will only have been 3 vehicles released in the past two years. With the game in production for 6 years at this point (assuming development started in 2012), this means that 12% of the vehicles for the game have been released in the past third of the development time. I'm not nitpicking, this is truly excessive. The level designers have been producing content at a decent rate as of late, but the vehicle production seems to have busted an axle and is dragging itself down the road. This is not saying the Hopper, Piccolina, or DT40L are bad, but vehicles are probably the most important part of a driving game. I understand that Gabester hurt his wrist and is out of action, but a drop in productivity this extreme is kinda unacceptable for a studio with many talented employees.

If this didn't happen, and production remained at the average rate from the first 4 years, there would currently be 31 vehicles in game compared to the 23 (24 counting the Autobello) that we currently have. Again, the effects of this are very likely the reason that a number of community members have been getting frustrated with the game's development, as seeing one new vehicle ~every 8 months is very frustrating.

Feel free to post your thoughts on this issue.

 

I’ve been thinking the same thing lately. The Hopper is far superior quality than older vehicles, but that doesn’t make up for how slow development has been going in that department. (I just say the Hopper since the Piccolina isn’t out yet and the Wentward is hard to compare to anything, being a city bus and all).

It’s really changed how I view the vehicle’s because at this rate Career mode will come out without enough vehicles to make any racing rosters feel complete. The biggest factor in a car for me now is how it will further career mode and mesh well in the racing classes we already have. I almost don’t want diversity in the car library because every car we have that is added and doesn’t fit into an existing car class is one less slot to diversify racing rosters. I would prefer to have 5 different cars in a dirt oval race than 1 different model in 5 different racing classes.

 

Sometimes being different is GOOD. I know sometimes I can be a real [censored] but I try not to be, we're human here though - all of us.
I know why some of the modders moved on, whether due to personal preferences, getting hired somewhere, or not being able to realize a proper scene without performance issues or strange bugs. Speaking of bugs, sometimes game bugs (especially the editor until more recently when Luis was hired) or updates wiped out a lot of progress, or people couldn't find their map from the cache/backups folder where it sometimes gets moved out of /levels/, etc. Sometimes they get fed up or just move on, this is life. Sometimes they're like me and stick around like a cat stuck in a giant fly paper trap.

Folks can sit there & hide from the crowd of snowflakes who are some how angered their perfect world was not as promised, even though there is/was no promise, or they can be like where I come from...I was the guy who bullied and sat on people when I was growing up (though, thankfully, I mostly grew out of that - for the most part - by around middle school, thank-you good parenting).
Sure, sometimes the kids and their all-caps responses can get grating on one's patience. I just ignore that stuff and thank/compliment the developers and other modders when they do something awesome so they know they're heading the right direction. It's always nice to get a pat on the back, even an internet version of that, you know?

To that end folks, life's too short to be upset, or to let others upset you, or otherwise dictate if you enjoy life or not, and what you do with your life (beyond it being illegal or something else outside the scope of this). Enjoy life, live it, love it. If you don't live your life and fulfill your goals, who's life are you living anyways?

I try to be positive and forward thinking, and not negative - but like any other human being, I've had my share of moments. No one's perfect. Hopefully as far as myself is concerned I can make that up with contributions back to the community. Other folks, I cannot control, I can only lead by example. I could be busy arguing, or I could be busy modeling/mapping something useful. I usually map, when I'm not busy writing another book-length post to the forums.

Lord, Please grant me the Serenity to change the things I can change, Accept those I cannot, and the Wisdom to know the difference. --Words to live by, for religious, or Athiest.

Internet communication is not very graceful with emotion. It's a weak point actually. So it may be best to keep emotion out of the question

--Cheers!

 

What if there would be 100 vehicles, would that be enough? There are lot of games that have much less content than this one.

Often I read comments where writer seems to feel that game should receive new content constantly or game be dead, for me it is bit alien thought.

Would think that devs know quite well what career mode needs and what it does not, after all they know what career mode will have in terms of gameplay.

Also there already is bit much of vehicles, new features updated to all vehicles takes time from vehicle development, but new features are needed because of not getting things to work properly otherwise, like torsion springs, which improved anti-roll bar behavior quite a bit on many vehicles.

Development is not linear run though, if they would of known how much changes they will need to make to physics etc. probably they would of kept number of vehicles less than 10 to save development time of updating them, but it was not possible to know at the start what would be on road along the route so I think there is more vehicles now because it was not possible to know how much updating will happen.

It is far more important to have things not seen worked on, like those torsion bars etc. than to have new vehicles, because more you have new vehicles, less likely it is to make some improvements to physics.

I think that greatest issue comes when one thinks this as a game like others, it has start and the end, but that is not BeamNG, in everything you see, powertrain etc. there is possible to build your own, in everything it is seen that you can build so much that even after playing whatever career mode there will be, BeamNG is not over, you can keep building stuff for countless years to come after 'finishing' the game.

It is not like Test Drive where it's left untouched after completing it.

So I think there is crucial difference in expectation (to be game that can be played trough) and what is aim of the game (that is to be in addition to game to be a platform you can build and customize stuff).

Think about how old content needs to be practically remade, if they would keep putting out new cars every month, which they then would need to remake few times as more possibilities opens up, would that be sane way to do it?
Problem is even them can't know now what possibilities there will be after/within 2 years for example. They probably did not even dreamed of getting all these new features in that we have today.
They could of done way many other houses do and just stick to plan, we would have something like in 0.6 version if even that and few more vehicles, career mode that does not play nicely but game would be 'complete', would that be better?

I think that current way is better, but then again I am very much into building stuff.

 

I forgot to add, though this doesn't contribute so much, aside of lightening the mood a bit...

I can't help it when I see the topic 'Where are we going?' in my email headers, but respond with 'ARE WE THERE YET?'

Sorry, I'll bow out for the moment before I get hit with rotten fruit, or something.

@fufsgfen Yes, I agree, and when you say old content has to be remade or touched up etc. That's how it ALWAYS is, computer game or not. It's life. Nothing's perfect all the time.
It's like the old adage with 'replacing the throw pillows on the couch' ...
First you do that - just that - then go gee, the drapes look awful, let's replace those
Then the rug looks shabby. So you replace that.
Then the entertainment center because it's a bit clawed up with age - especially if you went to IKEA for it - shame SHAME buy hard wood next time. So you do.
OK but now I have to repaint the walls because they are dingy.
Now the ceiling too because of the cig smoke making it dark.
Now you have to replace your couch, too, because it's the only old thing left in the room.

That's how it goes.

Now if I don't respond in a day or two it's because I just found a pile of my CD's from my 486, including COMMAND AND CONQUER and my Creative Labs Soundblaster 16 Software CD. Heh.
EDIT: SIMCITY 2000!!!

 

There are some game makers that don't work that way though, they just do graphical things and those are then done, no more fine tuning etc. Many games are quite poor in terms of polish, slap assets in, make it work somewhat ok, if it does not crash more than every 5 clicks that is fine.
Sure they do make rather big games in 2 years and some dare to say 2 years being long development time, but amount of corners that is being cut is quite high.

Say if sound works only from right side unless you choose some completely irrelevant option, that is fine, it still works, print the thing on DVD and maybe patch it in next 6 months but perhaps not.

I mean it is really horrible quality wise that is the 'standard', much more rare is to see developer to actually go trough the troubles of making improvements and for free.

But it is not bad, if it is government software you building, things work something like this, you release version that really does not work at all, data gets saved to completely wrong fields, making it impossible to use, then you release a patch, which btw costs something like bit over 100 000 for government, now fields are fixed, but you can't print, nothing happens when you print, so new patch is needed, which again is 100 000, projects that are designed to be complete in 1-2 years can take up to 7 years, when only reason project to end is that software gets replaced by another.

It is perfectly legal, there is kind of silent agreement of this behavior between capable houses delivering the software and so things run.

So way BeamNG does things is really generous and quite exceptional too as they are trying to make things right instead of maximizing profit.

 

Well, yes.
Intertia and Bakasan, while they were around, were hard to find in good moods, to put it that way.
Back then, i was just getting into mapping (which i have completely stopped because the Map Editor crashes way to frequently) but ever since then, i have gotten much better at actually modding stuff.
And now (and you know very well) I am actually quite capable. But my point is, i would probably be much farther ahead in my whole 'modding career' if so many bad attitudes hadnt been present on the forums. Now, i understand where some of their angst came from, because being a modder is not easy. Especially if you put stuff onto the mod repo and people give you just a straight out 5 stars and say something along the lines of "Yup yup very good now please devote your life solely to modding and put out updates every day k thx bye"
Obviously i am exaggerating, but the lack of constructive criticisms and ruthless begging from the younger audience is very annoying, even if it isnt on my own projects. (EG: Make the Prerunner 4WD!) And i can give grace for age, but, if you do have something that will ADD and not derail a discussion, then go ahead. But if it does cause unnecessary attention to yourself and messes peoples actual conversations up, then dont.

Also quick note, why do people like/agree (notice i didn't put informative) with devs posts more often than other members, even if they may be restating what a member had said, as if your going to get special recognition or internet karma or something...
I only do it because i think they made a good point, etc. And obviously give them credit for the awesome work they put into this game daily

 

I actually had a very different experience. When I first joined these forums a year and a half ago (and had a very limited understanding of what went into modding and how to behave on the forums) I created an entire thread asking how to make a vehicle and what software to use. The only person that replied and helped me with links and advice was Bakasan. He was the first person I met on the forums and really made me feel welcome.
I didn’t really have much to do with Inertia but he did seem nice if he replied to one of my posts and was welcomimg and respectful.

Obviously this is just my perspective and I never saw the other side to them, but I’m saying they weren’t badly behaved all the time, unless it only started happening around 6 months or so ago when I stopped using the forums for a little while.

 

no, no.
They were really nice most of the time, but they could be really off-putting.
Atleast from my experience.

 

I didn't have an account but I was looking on the forums for 3 years before I joined. they seemed to get overwhelmed with themselves over time

And maybe we should get back on topic on where the vanilla game is heading not the story of modders

 

not really off topic, though.
My point was that we have a problem with the whole review system and the general immaturity floating about.
Especially with how Dean got treated..
But you do have a point, so I will refrain.

 

I believe that the game is going down a bumpy road in JRL that will become a smooth road in Italy

no seriously I think the game is going to get even more likeable with more content and fun as time proceeds with Vr support split screen multiplayer and many new maps and cars, as well as scratches and better graphics and mac/Linux support yes this is a hell of a long list but seriously all these things are possible.


aaaannnnndddd some random pics from the internet

 

fake multiplayer, the Multitubers old PFP, mac crap and scratches.
*I see you are a man of culture aswell*
OK, seriously, what is the general problem with the current engine, and why are people complaining? Please catch me up to speed.
I would like to discuss said topic.

 

The problem is that the whiners think CryEngine looked better because "it haz durt and orang lihgt." No matter how many quality screenshots I post of the current game that blow the CryEngine graphics away, these people just! won't! shut! up! Basically they're mad that BeamNG doesn't look like Call of Duty. OF COURSE IT DOESNT ITS A FKUCING DRIVING SIMULATOR

Keep in mind that Crysis, the flagship CryEngine game, is renowned for its poor performance, challenging even modern high-end hardware. So yeah, the devs should throw away years of perfectly good work on Torque3D, then spend the next three or so years (during which it will not be possible to release any updates, and for the most part will be radio silence from the team because "behind the scenes, nothing shiny to show off!!11!1!11!!") trying to recreate BeamNG on an engine famous for crap framerates on expensive machines.

 

Dean himself can also be less than perfect at times.

Thing is you can't have only awesome talents from modders that have ton of free time, there is always other side too and because modding is so demanding for this game, there is going to be more of that other side then too.

We all have our issues, more talent and less issues one has, less time one will also have, it is kinda like triangle where everything is connected, it is very very rare to have balanced person of great capability that would have lots of time.

Modding itself is activity which draws of personalities with some issues, for many modding is place to escape, so it is kinda natural that there will be conflicts too.

It is enough interesting phenomena that some research should be done on it (or maybe even is done?), but I'm sure you have heard about artist's temper? It just is how those who are willing to go beyond normal are, lot of reasons for that too, but not going to write book about society and social structures influencing those that are not average etc.

In short, difficult individuals are part of this game, they are what makes this game possible, but even difficult individuals need to follow the rules. Strong emotions makes it then difficult yet again and tends to be more is more, both good and bad.


I'm not very perfect, I fail often, despite trying very hard, but I am one of the difficult types too.

Now something to think about, do you want others to define you or do you want to define yourself? I am going to be bold and claim that annoyance from begging is only your own making. It is own attitude that defines which emotional storm happens inside of you. Same with my neighbors yelling while being drunk as I try to sleep, my own head is what makes me angry, some primitive territorial mechanism, I can put earplugs to my ears and be happily calm.
Same way you can find ways which allow you to not get annoyed by others, it is really useful to learn, nearly impossible to master.

Changing others is really difficult, kinda pointless really, but changing what reaction by others happens inside of own head, that is something much easier, greatest obstacle is thought pattern of "me, owning, my way etc..."

Constant struggle of evolution, to learn, purpose of life thing, not good at it, but have slight idea about how things work, so learning better ways of think, that is great secret to life

 

Cry engine is old, kinda bad in terms graphics, and rather unrealistic looking.
Thats just my take. Especially because ReShade is a thing, hello? You can make it looks really close to the CryEngine using it if you configure it yourself.
I guess they could just go cry about it
sorry
--- Post updated ---

I like to call those annoying people my 'prickly pears' or 'grace growers'
They get on my nerves, but i need to tune them out if they are just shunning me.
And you are 100% right about the whole artists temper thing, because i normally am at my PC trying to hide from Algebra 2, and then getting mad at my PC
Yeah, despite how i may act, i am definitely not one of those who is very balanced. AT all.

And also, I only got into modding because i love it, with a passion. And when people forcefully try to mess with that, whether intentionally or not, its hard to tune out, especially because i am trying to find the people who actually will help/ point out problems. And yeah, it mostly is my head, but when its not, its infuriating. (EG: Make the Prerunner 4WD, again)

I, also struggle from being a nuisance. As some of you might already know. Its hard being human, and i do have to agree with you.

 

Failing over and over, and finding what fails and what does not fail, is how we learn.
If we didn't fail we'd never be the wiser on everything to do with it. So goals are goals but not promises. Until then, we have much more to fail, and learn, and fail, and learn - and even occasionally coming out winning. We shall cherish those times as without fail, how could we?

This Simulation has only one way to go - UP.