Why do Europeans hate American cars?

Discussion in 'Automotive' started by adamj932, Jan 15, 2014.

  1. logoster

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    Lol what? I've never seen corvettes under $60,000, let alone near hatchback prices

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  2. Car crusher

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    Haha :D I guess the Europeans aren't the only ones
     
  3. Mythbuster

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    You're forgetting some things though.
    512TR: 362lbs/ft @5500rpm
    Viper: 450lbs/ft @ 3600rpm

    Yes, per liter it has less torque and less hp than the Ferrari, but do you remember that famous quote by Carroll Shelby?
    "Horsepower sells cars. Torque wins races".

    Viper is also lighter.

    Ferrari 512TR weighs 1506kg
    Viper RT-10 weighs 1490kg


    But here's the best part:
    0-60:
    512TR: 4.9 sec
    Viper: 4.0 sec

    0-100mph:
    512TR: 10.7 sec
    Viper: 9.2 sec
    (there's that torque for ya!)

    Quarter mile:
    512TR: 13.20 sec
    Viper: 12.9 sec

    But the Viper has a 15km/h lower top speed, but since a racetrack is made up of corners, you likely won't reach the top speed of either car anyway.

    A big displacement engine will have to work less to make power for it's entire life, so it's less prone to major flaws. That's also why some Dodge trucks manage to go 1 million miles without an engine rebuild... I wouldn't count on a 700hp Supra making a 2500mile roadtrip reasonably reliably, yet the Roadkill guys did exactly that in a Hemi-powered 55 Chevy pushing 700hp.

    THAT is why American cars have such huge displacement engines. That, and the fact that they probably mostly couldn't be bothered to engineer it better :').

    Of course, their suspension sucked so they're mostly throwing all that power in the bin, but then again... Look at the Nurburgring records now. The Viper and the Vette are in the top 10 or so, and a Nissan GTR(of all cars!) took like 6 or more tries and a Nismo tune-up before it could pass them...


    One other important factor here is the price...
    A new 1992 Viper RT-10 cost $50,000... (That's 2014 Golf GTI money!)
    A new 512TR cost $189,500...

    A NEW 2014 Viper SRT STILL only costs $101,309... You can LITTERALLY buy both a new 2014 Viper and a new Viper RT-10 for the price of a 512TR when it was new, and you'll still have enough money for another car!

    Thats 125 dollar per horsepower for the Viper, and 441 dollar per horsepower on the 512TR... I'll take the Viper, thanks.
     
    #223 Mythbuster, Jun 8, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2014
  4. spavatch

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    Reeeally? Is that the best you can come up with after reading all my scribble? :)

    First of all, we're talking Euros, not Dollars. European prices differ greatly, the cheapest Corvette is like 65 000 Euro or almost 90k of your greens and since Mustang's still absent on our market I reckon it would fetch for Camaro money, so that's 40-45k Euro. Secondly, I've never said anything about hatchback money, I said compacts, which can be anything ranging from a large hatchbacks through coupes and convertibles to a sedan or wagon. And I thought it was obvious I was talking about top spec performance compacts that would at least try to keep up with the sport cars in terms of performance, not the base ones with 1.6 liter four bangers and hand-cranked windows. So let's go straight to the price tags. A Audi RS3 is 50 000 Euro, so are BMW 1M, A45 AMG Merc and top spec Subaru Impreza, Audi S4 and Merc CLA 45 are around 56k, Lexus IS-F is 72k, Audi RS4 is over 75k, C63 AMGs is 75-85k and BMW M3/M4 are anything from 70 to 130k. So there you have it, compared with the prices of cars the Corvette is competing with, like Carrera S, Nissan GT-R or XK Jag, it is actually a compact-car-money sports car. Still, if I had that kind of money to spend on a ridiculously unpractical fun car I'd go for something else, the Alfa 4C probably, and have some change left (15k) for fuel and tires.


    Now that's a reply I've been waiting for. Thanks, Mythbuster!
    :)

    You're probably right, but I wouldn't make a bet on a Viper RT/10. I doubt it would do a better laptime than 512TR on any given race track, even with all that extra oomph. As I said, things start to get better and modern Vettes and Vipers are so much better than the ones from 20 years ago. Still, I think my statement about sloppiness of 80s and 90s American cars holds water.
     
    #224 spavatch, Jun 8, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2014
  5. SixSixSevenSeven

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    Hot compact he said.
    Not exactly a "compact", but take a ford focus RS (a car I happen to quite like). List price in 2009 (Most recent price I can find, ford have shown off photos of a new RS coming soon but there is no pricing for it yet) was £24995, adjusted for price inflation and in todays money that is £29241, in USD: $49157. The base price for a corvette is $53000 so its a tad short.

    Honestly, of the 2 I'd rather have the RS. Straight line performance will be alot lower (5.9 second 0-60 maxing out at 163), but at least its a car I can throw the shopping in the back of. Good for 30mpg too.

    Its thought the new focus RS will actually be using a tuned version of the 2.3 litre 4 litre ecoboost from the base model mustang (on another note, who the hell buys a mustang and opts for a 2.3 litre i4 engine??? v8 powah surely?).
     
  6. Speicherplatz

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    Edit: too slow :D
     
  7. Mythbuster

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    A brand new complete base model 2014 Golf GTI costs near 46k too, at least in Europe(I reckon its more in the US), and that *is* a proper compact/hot hatch... With the performance pack(7hp extra and a limited slip), but still the lowest price(so no other extras whatsoever), you're looking at $51,123(and again, they're probably more expensive in the US)... Definitely supercar straight-line speed and looks for hot hatch money.


    And yeah, @ spavatch: Ferrari would almost definitely beat a Viper around a track :p My post was mostly to say that the huge displacement isn't only a useless bad thing. And yup, 50's-90's American cars are mostly just sloppy... I'd still own one though!
     
  8. logoster

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    Well, that was the only thing that looked strange (and when I first replied it did say hatchbacks)

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  9. Dummiesman

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    (imported from here)

    Does this not belong in Off-Topic since this is in the forums under related to BeamNG.Drive? Just wondering lol
     
  10. spavatch

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    By the way, as with everything such a definitive statement isn't completely true. There are many people totally mad about American cars in my country. Here are some examples from my neighborhood :).

    8018_338581429559451_1442562818_n.jpg 538388_281259065291688_415485664_n.jpg
    1379279_525658564185069_1583366405_n.jpg 1395992_536826583068267_1115104977_n.jpg
    1506422_605739909510267_562860281_n.jpg 1922382_608572215893703_1528486224_n.jpg
    1959250_612419888842269_175351115_n.jpg 10154122_634312966652961_4390776572724304793_n.jpg
    10341451_643440509073540_7552814064534270765_n.jpg 10356350_644983762252548_8150827049865723406_n.jpg
    10429217_652064261544498_312420645264841206_n.jpg 10255666_645491418868449_6791196901789209047_n.png


    Plus, a short promo video of Mustang meeting :).

     
    #230 spavatch, Jun 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2015
  11. ast5515

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    To reply to the original question: Not everybody does. If you ask what's my fav car, I would say the 3rd gen Trans Am because of Knight Rider. Otherwise I love old Chargers.
     
  12. Lurker

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    Carma, Yin 'n yang done did it again;
    Americans hate European cars, soooo.......
     
  13. Guyver

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    well im British and love the old american muscle cars. im a ford guy and drive ford sports so im a little bias towards ford. have a focus ST and a cosworth. newer cars look a bit meh, all the same.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ford have stated that we might have a new RS by 2016. still like the older ones though like my Sapphire Cosworth 4x4 :)
     
  14. bingbong

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    here is my big german like ;)



    long time ago, my own cars ..
    camaro LT / 75 (manual transmission)
    pontiac firebird formula 400 / 76
     
    #234 bingbong, Jun 23, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2015
  15. Goosah

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    I hate that quote, its misleading. Horsepower = the ability to do work, ie, go fast, which is in principal, torque*rpm. Theoretically, you get your power from some combination of rpm and torque, you just need the gear reduction to be chosen appropriately for the wheel speed you want to apply it at. Torque on its own doesn't "do" anything.

    Carrolls interpretation of torque is the nature of engines and their powerbands:

    Engines with "high torque", ie american v8, have typically a lower specific output, but a wider powerband. This is useful because typically a car has 5 or 6 gears to choose from, thus at a variety of loads and speeds the engine is still able to do close to the maximum work.

    Something with "low torque" like a Ferrari or a Honda with VTEC, has a high specific output with a narrow, rapidly increasing powerband at the top end of the rev range. With a fixed number of gears, the driver has only a narrow range of driving conditions where the motor can stay in the powerband. You can tune the ratios so that behave optimally for certain situations (tracks, driving behaviours, etc), but overall its less versatile for all conditions.

    Stick a CVT on these motors and the Ferrari wins lol.
     
  16. GhostRai

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    Don't those old american v8's have smoothness on their side? As in the engine runs smooth (not the ride, that idk about)
     
  17. kruleworld

    kruleworld
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    gasoline and petroleum are the exact same thing. (gasoline was a brand name for petrol in the usa and is now the accepted term for it, like velcro). I know it's not technically a 'gas' (and it's a stupid name since it'll be confused with an actual gas, like LPG or LNG).
     
  18. Nemesis

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    Ford Is marketing the Mustang more towards Europe because Mustangs aren't selling well in America since they are one of the most expensive Muscle cars here, same thing with the new Chargers they look like darts The only truly American Muscle cars anymore are the Camaro and the Challenger seeing as the challenger is cheap and the quickest I have no problem with this however I drive my Jaguar XJ6 (AJ16) more often than my Charger R/T idk what it is I like older tough British made cars , nothing below a 6 cylinder for me otherwise I might as-well get a lawnmower :D exception to rare I5's
     
  19. redrobin

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuation
     
  20. Nemesis

    Nemesis
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