General computer talk/advice

Discussion in 'Computer Hardware' started by BlueScreen, Jan 25, 2015.

  1. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
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    Hmm, this is not good at all, this is really pathetic, need to figure out some settings, but this certainly this is not right, very very weak single core results:
    upload_2018-9-4_18-13-6.png
    upload_2018-9-4_18-13-20.png

    Another run gave bit better result, but it is still pathetically slow:
    upload_2018-9-4_18-23-52.png

    Considering 6700 non K did run for 40.1 Mbeams/s I would except over 46 for 1 car test. So need to do some tweaking.

    This is better:
    upload_2018-9-4_20-33-45.png
     
    #8101 fufsgfen, Sep 4, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  2. redrobin

    redrobin
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    Eat my 90's, scrubs

    image0.jpg
     
  3. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
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    9th Gen Intel seems to be not much, soldered HS and maybe bit better overclocking, but it does not improve much over 8th gen.

    Then again these articles seem to be tiny bit questionable, how in gaming benchmark 8700K disappears so often?
    https://wccftech.com/intel-core-i7-9700k-8-core-cpu-review-performance-detailed/

    9900k has of course more threads and all that, but considering base clock of chip is actually quite low and knowing that you don't hit max turbo with lot of threads, there only is overclocking performance gains and not sure how much those really will be as article is not very good in that.

    So here is 9900K geek bench results 6248 / 33037
    https://wccftech.com/intel-core-i9-9900k-core-i7-9700k-core-i5-9600k-cpu-performance-leak/

    My 8th gen has 6325 / 29003 with 2 cores and 4 threads less :
    upload_2018-9-13_13-6-44.png

    With time of course we will see if 9th gen average overclock will be better or not, but not much of upgrade even for fast 4th gen if purpose is to run BeamNG?

    Maybe old news for most, but I kinda just stumbled upon those pages.

    For DX12 games etc. better multicore performance might do something, but then there are cheaper AMD route for that.
     
  4. PriusRepellent

    PriusRepellent
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    @fufsgfen yeah that is why I still have my i7 4790k. GPUs have made significant advancements since 2014, but sadly CPUs have not. At least not in single-thread performance. I also have my CPU set to hit max turbo on all 4 cores for max performance without pushing it too hard.
     
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  5. skodakenner

    skodakenner
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    thats also why i could keep my old dual core for so long as it could actually run modern games still
     
  6. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
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    I see that devs are experimenting with Vulkan.
    https://www.beamng.com/threads/beamng-on-linux.53767/#post-833235

    One of the reasons for BeamNG being quite single core dependent is that each texture adds DX drawcalls, DX12 and Vulkan are something that have much more freedom in there as they are much better threaded, or so I have understood.

    It is kinda complex are to change in a game though as your textures etc. are made for DirectX, I have no idea if for Vulkan one can make even skin same way as now using DXT1 for paint and alpha for reflections etc.

    I see that WCUSA uses reflection maps, maybe instead of alpha such has to be used in future.

    Anyway, if move to Vulkan becomes possible, then BeamNG would gain huge performance leap for AMD and 8th + 9th gen intel, but there might be 10th gen intel, until such Vulkan support will be in public release of BeamNG as it is kinda complex and challenging task and small team has to make things when they don't need to redo everything many times over, so pushing Vulkan supported version to public would take time I think.

    What it would allow is to use Windows 8 or maybe even Windows 7 as I think Vulkan enabled GPU drivers are available for at least Windows 8, might be whole Vulkan thing works on Win8?

    That and new UI might make it possible for game to run with lot lower single core performance and with more cores/threads you could run much more cars than now.

    Also it would allow CPU like Ryzen 7 and Threadripper really shine in this game and Ryzen 5 setups would also be very much better than currently, AMD has been long pushing more cores and that is only way to really get enough computing power to feed coming GPUs

    GPUs indeed have improved their speed a lot, problem is how to keep them fed, future CPUs will not make huge leaps in single core performance, they will add more cores though, GPUs are probably gaining performance, maybe we start seeing again multiple GPU cores or cards, so software needs to develop accordingly.

    Core2Duo was a nice jump in performance, Pentium III was also and I think 4th gen i7 was nice too, at least 4790k is really strong even today, but there has been quite a lot of weak new models since then.

    With 4.8Ghz 8086k BeamNG runs kinda fine though, 6th gen overclocked CPU can get to that kind of performance levels, IMO as it is single core what matters here, sure 6 cores and 12 threads is more, but in BeamNG I don't really see difference between 4 threads or 12 threads.

    But future is different of course and anyone thinking about CPU upgrade, but having i7-2500k or better might want to hold out to get best upgrade. Those with DDR4 might get good upgrade with 8th or 9th gen, depends, however I think that if Vulkan happens for BeamNG, then there is AMD option which provides same or better performance at lower cost.


    Intel is nicely riding with limits of old Direct-X and other software as they advertise best gaming on i9 etc. Sure, for now, but software is changing, if one wants best value from upgrade, I think it is worth to wait for what happens with software and especially with BeamNG, probably more cores will become better than single core speed at some point within 4 years, maybe even in 2 years.

    So what is interesting to see is if AMD Matisse will be first or will BeamNG Vulkan be first? I would guess Vermeer being first, but let's see, either way I'm quite confident that I can brag more than a year until move to more and faster CPU threads will be overtaking or Vulkan will render single core speed much less important, nature of this game.
     
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  7. PriusRepellent

    PriusRepellent
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    Vulkan would be awesome, especially since my video card seems to love it (at least with playing Doom 2016 on ultra graphics with an AMD R9 Fury X)
     
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  8. skodakenner

    skodakenner
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    I just tried the forza horizon 4 demo and it runs nicely i get 60fps at max settings so maybe forza is now nicely optimized
     
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  9. SixSixSevenSeven

    SixSixSevenSeven
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    It has been since FM7 Hit PC
     
  10. skodakenner

    skodakenner
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    But FM7 did crash way more than horizon 4 at the start you couldnt make a race last more than 3 laps because it would crash
     
  11. SixSixSevenSeven

    SixSixSevenSeven
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    an issue that was literally patched within days. I currently run it 1080p max settings, 60fps cap simply as I have 60hz monitor. GTX1060 crippled by being in a laptop. Rock solid 60fps, no dropped frames, not even using 100% of available performance.
     
  12. skodakenner

    skodakenner
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    Same with me here it now runs beautifully but at start it wasnt the best
     
  13. PriusRepellent

    PriusRepellent
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    I get an occasional audio bug where a sound never stops repeating, but that is solved by exiting to main menu and going back in. I also have the occasional hiccup in FPS during cutscenes but the gameplay is nice and smooth.
     
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  14. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
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    Overclocking surely has changed since times of PIII.

    It seems that I'm hitting limits of cooling for extreme loads, puzzles me a little as Vcore is not that high and I have Thermaltake Macho Rev. B with two fans, maybe it is that Akasa thermal compound (could not source better locally) or intel TIM, still kinda surprising that I'm hitting almost 90C very quickly.
    upload_2018-9-15_15-49-56.png
    Motherboard is not really helping as even I set 1.26v have to put LCC to max and still have some VDroop as well as split second spikes that can be even 1.35v, however those are rare and just a split second, still would like them to stay away or at least not much above 1.4v
    TMPIN4 is VRM.

    CPU can be ingame stable at 5Ghz, but voltages were auto then and that goes to 1.4v which in game with single car can be up to 70C on really heavy map, not a chance to have all cores at 100% with that as it is getting bit too warm then, optimally I would like to stay under 80C

    Puzzling indeed, motherboard is not the best, VRM especially sucks I think.

    Oh and that was only 4.8Ghz on all cores, running Heaven benchmark and Cinebench at same time.

    I might try bit lower voltage, but then again at times it does drop bit more making it bit challenging to lower much without getting random instabilities.

    So maybe I look different motherboard some time in a future, which might end up to water cooler and who knows what...
     
  15. MisterKenneth

    MisterKenneth
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    I want to ask for some opinions and suggestions. Lately, I've been thinking about beefing up my current computer's performance until I can finally afford a gaming desktop, since IRL I don't really make a king's ransom. A lot of the money I'd put toward that goes toward RL stuff like groceries and gas for the car. I'd prefer not to go into too much detail, since I like keeping my personal life, well, personal. So, it's going to take me a while.

    I think what I really need to focus on (according to BeamNG) is the CPU and system memory. Both are underpowered, and I am absolutely certain it effects how games like BeamNG and Cities: Skylines perform on my system. I hope to change that.

    What would be some CPUs and RAM you'd suggest? For CPUs I'd hope to get something with a clockspeed of at least 3 GHz, and something that will work with my system.

    Here's what BeamNG told me about the CPU and RAM. I apologize if I already showed this.
    WhatBeamNGsaysabouttheCPU.png WhatBeamNGsaysabouttheSystemMemoryRAM.png
     
  16. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
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    I'm not sure what kind of upgrade paths you have with your current hardware, it might be that you need new pretty much everything to have more powerful CPU.

    Gaming laptops are kinda challenging subject with limited funds, because at the same money you could get much better desktop.

    Used computer with i7 4790k would probably be one of the good choices, or even one with i7-2500k if one can find such really cheap, people often sell such for low price because they are old, even they do just fine in BeamNG today and probably even better in future.

    GPU is also issue, while BeamNG can run even on iGPU of 6th gen intel, it is still very slow and requires absolutely minimum graphics for good framerate. BeamNG is challenging as visual quality does drop quite a bit when going lower than normal.

    For me it does sounds like you would have best return for investment, if you could hold out upgrade for 1 to 2 years as it might be hardware requirements of BeamNG change during that time.

    If waiting or used is not an option, cheap Ryzen might be lowest cost option to get somewhat ok performance right now and possibly good performance in future, however I really recommend finding used tower with everything in it when going to low cost route, taking time to monitor used computer sale ads, one might get really good bang for a buck and being old means not much, improvements in CPU power for example have been quite small in last 4 years.
     
  17. MisterKenneth

    MisterKenneth
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    I can't really afford towers right now, which is why I'm going to be looking for parts for my laptop instead. I'm positive they won't cost as much as an entire tower will.

    To put things in perspective, I've been wanting to get an entire new system for months now. Money's been tight in my personal life, which is why I put getting a gaming desktop on indefinite hold.
    --- Post updated ---
    I looked around at CPUs on Ebay, and this is what I'm going to ask now. Which of these three should I consider getting to replace the AMD E1-6015 my system currently has?

    AMD Ryzen 5

    AMD Ryzen 7

    Intel I7

    I'm not so sure what to do with the RAM though. Any suggestions on that as well?
     
  18. SixSixSevenSeven

    SixSixSevenSeven
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    None of the above, your laptop CPU isn't replaceable
     
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  19. MisterKenneth

    MisterKenneth
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    Damn it! How is it not replaceable?

    That means I'm still stuck with waiting until I have a crap ton of money to finally afford a gaming desktop. That's going to take a very long time at the current rate, unless I find some way to get that huge sum of money in a short span of time.
     
  20. Bubbleawsome

    Bubbleawsome
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    Laptop CPUs are rarely, if ever, replaceable. You could buy an entire new logic board, but that would probably cost nearly as much as a desktop, so not very worth it.

    I’d say the best way to make money is to work. Even McDonald’s can make you enough for a basic but solid gaming computer in about 2 months if you’ve got no other expenses.
     
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